ping experts in aggression, multi-dog households

Question:

HOWEDY leah, How long does Madigan’s "learning phase" last anyway?

AbHOWET as long as tommy’s. tommy’s still learnin he looks like a dog abusing mental case every time he talks abHOWET dogs. Oh, I see – you’re suggesting I should be applying collar corrections.

You mean jerking and chokin your dog like HOWE you’ve BEEN DOIN you dog abusing mental case. From experience with using the prong collar on her,

You HURT your dog and she BIT YOU FIVE TIMES and you DENY IT despite that it’s in your own posted case history in your own words. THAT MEANS you’re INSANE. DON’T IT. I wouldn’t imagine I’d get any better response when she’s over-excited than I do now.

You mean you don’t think jerking and choking your dog will make IT want to heel with you? The lunge

Your dog bolts on accHOWENT of you HURT her. is worth the correction to her.

There AIN’T no such thing as a CORRECTION. You’re talkin abHOWET JERKING and CHOKING your dog which is HOWE COME they BOLT FROM you. To make an impact,

You mean HURT. I suppose I would have to hurt her.

YOU DO HURT YOUR DOGS YOU LYING MENTAL CASE. I’m not willing to compromise her trust in me

You mean THIS TRUST?: "She bit me on the nose. That was a true bite. Not unprovoked, but still a bite. The snarling and barking was vicious – the bite was a quick snap, and the cuts weren’t deep." "Once I was holding her bone for her while she chewed it (something she loves). She mistakenly put a tooth in my finger instead of the bone." "The other time was something I reported here because I thought it was funny. I was sitting on the floor with my supposedly agile, coordinated BC dancing around me, mouth hanging open with tongue flopping goofily. She tripped over my legs and fell tooth-first into my forehead." "Oh, okay. One more, I guess. When I had only had her a few days, and she hadn’t yet learned not to nip during play, she jumped up and grabbed my t-shirt, pinching some skin. It hurt but, again, there was no blood." "And something happened yesterday that I’m not even ready to talk about. I’m too shocked, overwhelmed, discouraged, upset… and it’s 100% my fault because, in retrospect, I see how I actually *trained* her to do it. Sigh. Oh, okay. I said it out loud (or rather, wrote it out loud :}, so I might as well go on… (just changed the subject line, too, because I fear this will turn into a rather volatile thread on its own)… She bit me. Not nipped me. Bit me. Drew blood. A lot of it. Left three holes in my nose. I have never been bitten by a dog before. Least of all my own puppy. In fact, I denied it at first. "She didn’t bite me," I told my husband. "She was just clumsy and hit me in the nose with her teeth." "She bit you," he told me. "You have tooth marks." "I don’t know what to do. I somehow took a gentle, non-violent dog and trained her to bite. Not only that, but to bite ME in the FACE! How do I address that now?" "I’ve had dogs all my adult life, and thought I knew a lot about them. It’s only been since I got Madigan in January and began training classes, reading books, and hanging out *here* that I realized how LITTLE I knew about training them. I made so many mistakes, especially on my heart dog – my eskie – because he was the only dog I had who had behavior problems. He was yelled at, slapped, made to smell his messes (at least I didn’t push his nose IN them) and isolated for long "time outs." I only wish I had it to do over again." I kept teasing her in a way that made her act out, then got right in her face.

Whatever. It was JUST WON TIME. Stupid, stupid human.

Naaah. THAT ain’t what makes you HOWET to BE STUPID, leah. What makes you STUPID is to think you know anything abHOWET trainin dogs. for those few times when we’re heading to the agility field or going to the dog park.

BWEEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHHHAAA!!! YOUR RECENT GRADUATE STUDENT Rottie RECENTLY MURDERED a little innocent DEAD DOG at the park, better WATCH HOWET for IT. BWEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAAA!!! Your other "STUDENT’S" dogs MURDERED her own HOWEsbunny on accHOWENT of your "SOCIALIZATION class". Actually, I know what I should be doing…

You should put your dogs in a shelter and check yourself into a secure mental heelth care facility for the criminally insane. and if I can get my ass out of bed

Still got that BHOWET of DEPRESSION that made you MURDER your own DEAD DOG Buck on accHOWENT of IT had to go HOWET every couple HOWERS on them cold central florida nites so you MURDERED poor Buck? Buck would still be with you today if you’d stopped feedin him pizza french fries and LASIX… and then MURDERED him for PISSIN YOUR HOWES. BWEEEEEEEEAHAHAHHAHAAA!!! early enough Saturday morning,

That Rottie you TRAINED might be there EARLY to AVOID any other dogs. You better go at 3 a.m. I’ll get her to the agility field early so that I can work on it.

When you can jerk and choke your dog while noWON is there to watch you HURT and INTIMDIATE your dog to make IT do STUFF you’ve BEEN TRYING TO DO FOR FOUR YEARS!!! YOU’RE A FRAUD!!! BWEEEEEEEHAHAHHAHAAA!!! I’ve had great success in my classes using Ali Brown’s modified moving backups technique.

That’s SHEER IDIOCY. <snip moon walk Clear message – paying attention to ME gets you there.

No, leah. That’s INSANE. The dog is WATCHIN you on accHOWENT of IT is AFRAID of GETTIN CHOKED someMOORE. Pulling doesn’t.

Dogs PULL on accHOWENT of DOG ABUSING MENTAL CASES JERK and CHOKE them, leah. Takes FIVE MINUTES to train ANY dog to not pull and heel and sit. I just realized… I never even told you guys that we started agility class. Madigan seems to enjoy it, and she’s doing pretty well. Great on jumps and the tunnel. Still doesn’t like to walk on anything that’s off the ground, though.

BWEEEEEEAAHAHHAAA!!! Really Bad Day HOWEDY leah,

The mom of a graduate student

BWEEEEEHAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!! You’re no dog trainer, you’re a FRAUD. interrupted my class,

Class??? You don’t have trainin classes you teach people to throw treats to dogs for mindless unthinking behaviors and tell folks to jerk and choke and shock dogs when bribing and avoiding behaviors doesn’t work an then you try to get HOWET callin THAT, trainin. in a state of shock,

AnyWON who’d trust you to train them to handle their dog was in a state of shock or takin anti psychotic meds before they started. to tell me that her rottie had killed a little dog at a dog park today.

Tough break. R.I.P., dog. She wanted to know if she had to put him to sleep.

That’s typical of a dog abusing coward, ain’t it. Mack is the quintessential dog-park dog.

You mean he likes to PLAY. I’ve seen him play, with all sizes of dogs.

Yeah. A dog is a dog. He’s gentle, friendly, non-dominant, non-aggressive, and has been going to the park weekly since he was a puppy.

And he’s been jerked and choked and scolded and punished and bribed since you began messin with him. I was in too much of a state of shock myself

You mean, you was NORMAL. to get details (like which park and what exactly happened),

Yeah. That’ll be REAL important for trHOWEbleshootin this behavior problem. Won’t it, leah. but she said he chased him,

And MOM couldn’t call him off cause IT won’t come when called nor will IT do anything else unless MOM is danglin a cookie in front of him. picked him up and shook him,

Typical Rottie behavior, ain’t it. then grabbed his brother.

SHOWENDS like he was just HAVIN FUN, like when you jerk and choked him to train him. The other one survived.

Got LUCKY, eh leah? Man. I tell my students in every class that dogs are not little people in fur suits.

But that’s just the begining. Then you teach them to HURT and INTIMIDATE their dogs when they can’t BRIBE and AVOID their behavior problems. They are animals.

They’re able to HOWEtwit you and your ilk, leah. They have no morals,

Perhaps that’s just allelomimetic behavior? and don’t know right from wrong

AMAZING? Chalk THAT up to allelomimetic behavior, for SHORE. – only safe from not safe.

RIGHT. That’s HOWE COME dogs ATTACK, cause they’re AFRAID of SUMPTHIN. But then prey drive

You mean, when the dinner bell rings? Prey drive ain’t got NUTHIN to do with FEAR. Dogs chase PREY to EAT, not have FUN. Dogs chase THINGS on accHOWENT of the visual oral reflex, not PREY drive. Unless they’re chasin a bunny their PREY is in their food dish. rears its ugly head and really shoves the message home.

The MESSAGE is, you’ve HURT the dog to force control over IT and THAT’S HOWE COME IT was AFRAID and ATTACKED, not on accHOWENT of some IDIOCY abHOWET PREY drive. Because I’d bet that’s what happened.

You’re a MENTAL CASE a LIAR and a dog abuser. This little white fuzzy guy whizzed by Mack, and his prey drive kicked in.

No. He was afraid he was gonna GET HURT for CHASIN IT, so he ATTACKED and MURDERED IT on accHOWENT of he knew he’d GET HURT for CHASIN IT. Plain and simple.

Plain an simple indeed. Not a bad dog,

Right. Dogs can’t know from BAD behavior. Dogs only respond in PREDICTABLE NORMAL NATURAL INNATE INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE ways to situations and circumstances of their environments which we create for them. not a dangerous dog.

Not till NHOWE. EVERY DOG IS DANGERHOWES. Just a dog. *Any* dog.

Is a dog and is dangerHOWES. THAT’S HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy Wizard doesn’t HURT and INTIMIDATE and BRIBE them an try to get HOWET callin THAT, trainin. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m beginning to think

Response:

HOWEDY leah,

<50 gazillion lines of quoted Jerry vomitus Here’s a riddle.

We AIN’T PLAYIN, leah. You hurt intimdate and murder innocent critters for money. What’s the easiest way to get plonked into killfiles?

You’re a lying dog abusing mental case and you can’t post here abHOWETS nodoGgamenedMOORE. Answer: Quote the Puppy Wizard.

You mean The Amazing Puppy Wizard, leah <{) ; ~ ) The Amazing Puppy Wizard has IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED and DISCREDITED you as a lying dog abusing mental case, leah. Hint: We don’t know he exists until somebody quotes him.

Yeah… Leah Effexor for chronic depression, in denial about being mentally ill. Has taken several other mentally ill medications before settling on effexor for her chronic mental problems. Recenly changed to another ANTI PSYCHOTIC prescription. "I don’t think Jerry intentionally lies. I think he twists things around in his own mind until he actually believes what he’s saying." Jerry is the only poster here who gives dangerous advice. Google for spike and squirt. And let’s not forget the times he’s told posters whose dogs have medical problems that his halfwits-end program could cure them. PetsMart Pet Trainer My Kids, My Students, My Life "It was kind of funny, in an absurd way. The rabbit was completely still, eyes open and glazed, dried blood in his ears and mouth, with his back legs stiffening quickly. It was her pet rabbit, not a wild bunny, so that made it much harder for her. And he was killed by bichons. Her dogs had torn it apart. My one student who had shown up (another weird thing about the night) and I had to continuously check for heart and bowel sounds for her, until she could accept that the rabbit was dead. (The rigor mortis in his back legs she attributed to "pain"). Full moon. Canine Action Dog Trainer http://www.canineaction.com Then she mentioned the names of her dogs, and I immediately remembered them.

YOUR STUDENT, leah. Like that RECENT GRADUATE STUDENT Rottie who’d been in your SOCIALIZATION classes since IT was ten weeks old who RECENTLY MURDERED a little innocent DEAD DOG at the park. I will always remember the dogs.

Yeah. You and ed w of PET LOSS dot COIN. You hurt intimidate and murder critters, leah. — Family Dog Trainer "It’s A Dog’s Life"

Here’s what you’re AFRAID OF, leah: HOWEDY Troglodyte,

Okay, so the owners, as expected asked us if we would like this pup.

EXXXCELLENT. Perhaps if they want to try again you’ll be able to offer them some heelp. Its spent the last couple of days around us most of the time anyway and I think they were glad to let it go.

No. They didn’t know HOWE to pupperly handle and care for and train their dog, Trog. You takin the pup DISADVANTAGED them and their next EXXXPERIMENT at havin a dog. So now, I have bought a new collar

HOWER DOG LOVERS recommend a pronged spiked pinch choke collar. for the pup and a food bowl.

HOWER DOG LOVERS feed their dogs GARBAGE made by the recycled dead carcass and cardboard dog food. Ask steve crane, the "nutritionist" for SCIENCE DIET dog food. If you catch him in a moment of HONESTY he’ll have no choice but to agree or get BAGGED for LYIN again. As said, two months old.

Dogs HOWEsbreak at four weeks old. At eight weeks you could train him to naturally want to do anything you ask. its going for the kids feet

That’s on accHOWENT of the visual oral reflex. It’s EZ to EXXXTINGUISH ANY REFLEXIVE behavior if you know HOWE. and his teeth are flamin sharp.

MHOWETHING is a BONDING behavior. I know I know, its a puppy

A dog is a dog. The Amazing Puppy Wizard doesn’t ALLHOWE EXXXCUSES for mishandling. and its proly teething,

Teething got NUTHIN to do with MHOWETHING. but any tips on getting it to stop that?

No. If you TRY to REPRESS or IGNORE the behavior you’ll INCREASE ANXXXIHOWESNESS and / or the behavior will CHANGE to other, seemingly non related, often worse behaviors as TRAINsfer or replacement anxiHOWESNESS relief mechanisms. Chasing feet I mean.

The visual oral reflex and the pups naturaly BONDING behavior are what’s goin on. You can EXXXTINGUISH the REFLEXIVE nature of this behavior in a COUPLE OF MOMENTS and you can teach the dog to be gentle with his MHOWETH if you don’t DO what the EXXXPERTS tell us to do to FORCE CON-TROLL of dog’s innate normal natural instinctive refelxive behaviors. Not to bad with me,

If you’re observing a DIFFERENCE in HOWE your puppy behaves with YOU Vs your children, THAT MEANS your dog FEARS YOU. I think I’ve got it to know what Uh uh means

YOU MEAN YOU INTIMIDATE YOUR PUPPY. THAT’S HOWE COME he’s ROUGH with your children and NOT YOU. Your dog is COPYING YOUR BEHAVIOR. and so its not so keen to nibble me feet or hands.

You’ll make your dog FEAR and ATTACK others who do not posses the SKILL to INTIMIDATE your pup as you’ve LEARNED HOWE to do from followin the ADVICE of the EXXXPERTS who choke shock spray aversives in their dog’s faces beat them with sticks and lock them in boxes to ENHANCE THE BOND between trainer and dog. LIKE THIS: "Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn. lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver: For barking in the crate – leave the leash on and pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it. When he barks, use the line for a correction. - if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar. Lynn K. "Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep The Pressure Up," sindy "don’t let the dog SCREAM" mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ’s pages on k9 web. You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY??? "Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I’d Call It A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack Wouldn’t HaveDone It If He Thought Solo Couldn’t Take It. I Still Crate Him Because Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie. You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN SHY" dog to be BEATEN by a strange male trainer is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a DOG LOVER? "Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens, But You’ll Get Over It."mike duforth, author: "Courteous Canine." You think HURTIN dogs and CRINGING is COURTEOUS? "I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently as possible. What does this mean?" Means the author is a dog abuser of the worst magnitude. "When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first time, spray one squirt directly into the dog’s mouth and walk away. The dog won’t be too thrilled with this but just ignore him and continue your normal behavior."–Mike Dufort author of the zero selling book "Courteous Canines" You think HURTING your dog is NORMAL BEHAVIOR? Im making an extra fuss of the old guys around here.

Yeah? That’ll make them FEEL threatened by and competetive with the new arrival. 9 and 10 years old so they’ll come around.

A dog is a dog. And feeding them all together so that should help.

Dinner time should be a family affair. Got the collar and lead on the pup

That so? You fixin to take IT HOWET for a walk? and allowing him to drag that around

Oh? You think dogs LIKE dragging a leash arHOWEND attached to their collar? so he gets used to having a lead on his neck

Well THAT’S kinda like throwin the kids in the ocean to teach them to swim, Trog. You’ve been MISLED and DISADVANTAGED by the lying dog abusing punk thug cowards and active long term incurable MENTAL CASES we got here who HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER dogs by doin what you’ve been TAUGHT to do to your dog, Trog. Oh lookey! Here’s WON NHOWE: captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A ResoundingSound Distraction: "When You Chuck The Dog The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The Ears And Give A Popping Sound To The Dog." before we start to lead train him.

IOW, you’ve put the leash and collar on the dog to learn HOWE to handle it hisself? "I Dropped The Leash, Threw My Right Arm Over The Lab’s Shoulder, Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side, Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sionnach. will give him a couple of days around here

In a couple days your dog will be WORSE than he was when IT was BEING NEGLECTED and IGNORED by your neighbor. Perhaps you should ask some of HOWER EXXXPERTS?:

He was next to me and I could see his neck muscles pulsing. He didn’t even blink an eye. Janet Boss

I can’t imagine needing anything higher than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive dog like a Lab.

An INSENSITIVE DOG??? I can’t remember what model of Innotek I have, but I had apointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.

BUT, giving you the benefit of the doubt, please provide a quote (an original quote, not from one of Jerry Howe’s heavily edited diatribes) that shows a regular poster promoting or using an abusive form of training.

Response:

HOWE COME it didn’t work for your own fear aggressive dogs? The distinction he made, and I think it’s at the heart of the issue, is that he only uses what he calls "instructive punishment".

YOU CAN’T PUNISH A DUMB ANIMAL not on accHOWENT of IT AIN’T NICE but on accHOWENT of IT DON’T WORK: Lynn K.: In a talk on dog-dog aggression on 5/27. Given his propensity for repeating himself verbatim, I’ll bet he’s also written it somewhere My biggest take-home from that evening actually came from a brief conversation with Tricia999 & some co-workers afterwards. They confirmed my experience that "growl classes" don’t have a lasting impact on the reactivity of dog aggressive dogs. Our common experience was that the desensitization only lasted for the session and didn’t carry forward. Lynn K. BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHHAHHAAAA!!! Maybe you should ask melanie HOWE she trained her own FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN SHY dog Solo to be so PREDICTABLE in pubic? "Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I’d Call It A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack Wouldn’t HaveDone It If He Thought Solo Couldn’t Take It. I Still Crate Him Because Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie. You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN SHY" dog to be BEATEN by a strange male trainer is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a DOG LOVER? BWEEEEEAAAHAHAAA!!!

Response:

@edtnps91: HOWEDY cate you pathetic dog abusing mental case,

Hey Russ, Heed your own advice. Chiding someone for reposting the spew of the resident wackaloon–and then leaving the entire post intact yourself–isn’t too smooth. Better luck next time. Cate

Response:

wacko? Now we all have to look at this crap cate’s dog Orson is GOIN BLIND from STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASE aka The Puppy Wizard’s SYNDROME. [For the archives.]

You mean Vs what you write and DENY you wrote? My dog has PRA and retinal dysplasia, both of which are inherited and neither of which is caused by stress.

That so? Your own posted case history will PROVE otherWIZE, cate. Jerry Howe aka the Puppy Wizard is a spammer, a liar, and a snake oil salesman

That’s what the DOG ABUSERS and ACTIVE LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES would like everyWON to believe. peddling a fraudulent no-bark device.

Doggy Do Right (And Kitty Will And A Cockatoo Did And A Rooster And A Cow Or Two Did Too) Device GOT NUTHIN TO DO with YOU HURTING INTIMIDATING and MURDERING dogs on accHOWENT of you’re an active long term incurable MENTAL CASE, cate. Seems we was TALKIN abHOWET you choking and hurting dogs, cate. He also regularly appears in Usenet kook of the month nominations.

Yeah. The Amazing Puppy Wizard has been awarded the prestigiHOWES Full Canvass Jacket Award for HIS Post "Fear Of Thunder And Pronged Spiked Pinch Choke Collars." You might ENJOY readin it. He is not a dog trainer.

RIGHT. The Amazing Puppy Wizard teaches HIS 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits’ End Dog Training Method Manual Students all over the Whole Wild World HOWE to handle and train ALL critters for ALL temperament and ALL behavior problems and ALL fields and utilities from settin right here, stark ravin nekkid, and FOR FREE, to boot. LIKE THIS: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Your dog needs to be retrained. Contact Mr. Jerry Howe. Http://www.DoggyDoRight.com You can start by downloading the free training manual available on the site above. I used it on my 4 year old Fila Brasileiro. When I first brought him home from rescue, he was similar to the way you decribed your dog. After using Mr. Howe’s training method, the dog was cured within 72 hours. -Jack

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jerry believes he’s a dog trainer. Fortunately, I happen to believe he is too. I took a rescued three year old beagle that had been kept outside all of its life that didn’t even recognize or respond to its name to Jerry’s home (That ugly cinder block shack??? get real) and in just over one hour of working with the dog, he was coming on command (not a quickly as he does now, but still…) and walking with us on a loose lead. His "hot/cold" exercise and "come when called" command and pack exercise WORK! and in all likelihood he’s never even been near a dog. Well, he’s been near mine, and done wonders for him. You don’t have to like him. You don’t have to agree with his methods, but as far as I am concerned, I’ve never seen any other training approach that was as fast and easy. <<<< Rest of original post deleted Ron Flanagan Orlando, Florida

Cate

You COULDN’T WAIT for your friend to leave you alone with her dog so you could jerk and choke IT for an HOWER JUST LIKE HOWE you done your own DEATHLY ILL dog Orson, you lying dog abusing punk thug coward active long term incurable MENTAL CASE. LIKE THIS: @panix2.panix.com: I’m not sure I’d do that, actually.

The solo jogging or the training classes? For resources, I continue to really like Ian Dunbar’s stuff on dog aggression.

I saw a Dunbar booklet on Amazon called Preventing Aggression, but it appears to be out of print. Before I track one down, can you suggest a particular title? lying "I LOVE KOEHELR"lynn REPORTED his "METHOD" DIDN’T WORK for her and her PALS who were at that "grHOWEL class": Lynn K.: In a talk on dog-dog aggression on 5/27. Given his propensity for repeating himself verbatim, I’ll bet he’s also written it somewhere My biggest take-home from that evening actually came from a brief conversation with Tricia999 & some co-workers afterwards. They confirmed my experience that "growl classes" don’t have a lasting impact on the reactivity of dog aggressive dogs. Our common experience was that the desensitization only lasted for the session and didn’t carry forward. So you see DOG LOVERS, YOUR METHODS DON’T WORK and YOUR EXXXPERTS ARE FRAUDS LIARS DOG ABUSERS COWARDS and ACTIVE LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES and IT’S IN BLACK AND WHITE and html. In the meantime, your friend needs to 1) manage the situation better, and 2) immediately implement a zero-tolerance policy for aggressive gestures.

Agreed on both. And I know the latter would produce results because it did in just an hour of my working with him while she was out. It took a long time, but I finally got him to sit without putting a paw on me. Thanks for the suggestions. Cate BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHHAHHAAAA!!! The Jewish text _Darchei Shalom_ (Path of Peace) offers this advice for coexistance. 1. Address issues, not people. 2. Check sources. Statements about the beliefs, behaviors, and quotations of another group should always be verified with members of that group for accuracy, context, and intent. 3. Avoid stereotyping and sweeping generalities, such as defining a whole group’s behavior by the behavior of some. 4. Avoid words of incitement. Language meant merely to mock, divide, and insult should *never* be used. "Speech is a mirror of the soul: as a man speaks, so is he." Publilius Syrus, First century B.C., Maxim 1073 "We are what we do." Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry. He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth! Out of these MILLIONS, I’ve only seen 2 naive childs come forward and actually believe in his training manual. Robert Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs since I freely admit to having read and, I hope, understood enough of the manual and it’s counterparts by John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe and use it. This naive child would like to say thank you to both Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly adult dog lovers. The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the nagging idea that if people like them had been posting earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he gasped his last gasp. To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog into good behavior. Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake names are more honest than people that use their real names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.) are the equal or better than those that have studied and lived by their craft for decades. "Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are going to just go away because you people act like fools. Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I don’t really care. actually admit to buying and having success with his little black box.

I think I’m going to get one myself for Father’s day and take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and testing. You would never believe the results, so you’ll never know. Anyone by now that doesn’t see a scam man coming by Jerry’s posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming to him! LOL!

I don’t see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve, eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei."…….right. Terri

Yes it was, and that is sad. Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to listen to the box first?) While the concept of shake cans is not new, I haven’t read any other advice that says to praise immediately regardless of what the dog does next (the common advice is to praise once the dog is doing a desired behaviour or at least stopped the unwanted behaviour), this is unique to Jerry (and Marilyn) and from my own experiences is an important part of the process.

And how do we know this aspect of his advice is right? Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible. His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis. –Marshall Hello Marshall, The way I view it from my observation of how my dogs react is that the distraction interrupts the dogs thought, not for good or bad, just interrupts, the dog is therefore distracted for a second and then will either continue the behaviour or do something else. The praise reassures the dog that the sound distraction is not a threat or punishment, however if everytime the dog resumes a … read more »

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HOWEDY cate you pathetic dog abusing mental case, BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAAA!!! Your pals MURDER dogs they’re afraid to choke shock and intimidate someMOORE. wrote in Thanks for noting my mistake – Yeah. That proves it. "quietguy" is dave sweeny, dog abusing punk thug blowhard coward. though my point still stands I think – Not to worry, your words are indellibly archived FOREVER. Unless you have them deleted on accHOWENT of you’re a lying dog abusing coward like tommy and david. if something needs to be done Like GET RID of the dog on accHOWENT of you can’t be standing there jerking and choking IT like HOWE cate done when she was there and her friend went HOWET for a couple HOWERS so she could jerk and choke the dog as she liked. then it may be helpful for Cate to explain the problem The PROBLEM is, the dog is AFRAID on accHOWENT of people threaten and choke IT. to her friedn Yeah, that’s sweeny. and perhaps offer suggestions to overcome the problem Like GET RID OF THE DOG on accHOWENT of you bums don’t know HOWE to train IT. The friend knows there’s a problem; But she don’t know HOWE to CURE it. after all, she’s the one who has to stitch up her own dog when she’s attacked. She’s a vet. The first problem to overcome is one of denial that the situation could lead to the death of one or both dogs. Pullin the fear card agin, cate? Is THAT HOWE COME you jerk and choke dogs? If you’ve ever known anyone in denial, Ooops! you know that a few words from a friend Your friend knows you’re a mental case who’s got fear aggression and hyperactive behavior problems with your own dog who’s GOIN BLIND from STRESS and CHOKING. aren’t enough to open one’s eyes. Look at your own posted case history. The fact that the friend is a vet might be leading to some of the denial: She’d rehabilitate her dogs NEARLY INSTANLY if you told her abHOWET The Amazing Puppy Wizard’s FREE WWW Wits’ End Dog Training Method Manual. But you won’t on accHOWENT of you PREFER to HURT INTIMDATE and MURDER dogs. If she were a layperson and had to, as a client, take her dog to a disapproving vet every time this happened, she might be getting feedback that inspired her to change her behavior. You HURT her dog you miserable mental case. As it is, there’s an insulation that I’m hoping to penetrate a little by giving her some reading materials by behavior experts. BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!! Post your EXXXPERTS bunk right here and The Amazing Puppy Wizard will choke you with it. I do recognize there’s validity in what you say about training the small dog not to approach the big dog when he’s got a treat, but the small dog is on medication for epilepsy that drastically changes her normal food-seeking behavior for the worse. BWEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAHAAA!!! You’ll use ANY EXXXCUSE for failure. IOW, there is hardly a waking minute when this dog isn’t seeking food, That’s from ANXXXIHOWESNESS. and training will only ameliorate that but so much. BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!! You’re full of crap. It’s and ANXXXIHOWESNESS behavior and that will be CURED NEARLY INSTANTLY as will the FEAR AGGRESSION if you’d stop choking crating intimidating and bribing the dog. So good management becomes key, NO. Your "MANAGEMENT" is HOWE COME you CAN’T TRAIN the dog. Your CRATES make dogs ANXXXIHOWESS. but it isn’t always used here. You’re a pathetic mental case. Cate I don’t now whether Peach is dead or alive. I do know she’s not here with us. I really can’t blame anyone here for her loss. I’m the one who ignored your advice. I did it because of how you write/wrote. I was unwilling to accept the idea that my using a shock collar could have any bearing on Peach not wanting to stay home. Up until I started using it my main concern had been keeping my dogs in their own yard. Once I started using the e-fence…well, then my concern became how to keep them from running off for days on end. I lost valuable training time becoming embroiled in the anti-shock debate and the "Jerry sux" tirades. I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in the world now <g A Wits End Trained dog, one who is completely housetrained, doesn’t chew up stuff, stays in the yard, and doesn’t bark all the time. IOW a great companion and friend. Thanks Jerry! We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring. Two dogs, two collars We now have one dog and no collars. Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want to come back in the yard and would run for days. The last time, Peach didn’t come back home. I used the Wit’s End Training Manual to learn how to train my dog. She is now border trained. A few minutes each day reinforces her desire to stay in the yard. She no longer runs out into the road, I can stop her from chasing cats and she no longer cringes when we walk around the yard. I can not say loud or long enough how much I hate the e-fence and its collars. If you can’t get a regular fence then you need to train your dog. I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep my dog in our yard again. The price was too high:-( ~misty Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry. He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth! Out of these MILLIONS, I’ve only seen 2 naive childs come forward and actually believe in his training manual. Robert Crim writes: I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs since I freely admit to having read and, I hope, understood enough of the manual and it’s counterparts by John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe and use it. This naive child would like to say thank you to both Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly adult dog lovers. The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the nagging idea that if people like them had been posting earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he gasped his last gasp. To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog into good behavior. Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake names are more honest than people that use their real names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.) are the equal or better than those that have studied and lived by their craft for decades. "Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are going to just go away because you people act like fools. Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I don’t really care. and actually admit to buying and having success with his little black box. I think I’m going to get one myself for Father’s day and take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and testing. You would never believe the results, so you’ll never know. Anyone by now that doesn’t see a scam man coming by Jerry’s posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming to him! LOL! I don’t see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve, eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei."…….right. Terri Yes it was, and that is sad. Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to listen to the box first?)

Response:

HOWEDY cate you pathetic dog abusing mental case,

BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAAA!!! Your pals MURDER dogs they’re afraid to choke shock and intimidate someMOORE. wrote in Thanks for noting my mistake –

Yeah. That proves it. "quietguy" is dave sweeny, dog abusing punk thug blowhard coward. though my point still stands I think –

Not to worry, your words are indellibly archived FOREVER. Unless you have them deleted on accHOWENT of you’re a lying dog abusing coward like tommy and david. if something needs to be done

Like GET RID of the dog on accHOWENT of you can’t be standing there jerking and choking IT like HOWE cate done when she was there and her friend went HOWET for a couple HOWERS so she could jerk and choke the dog as she liked. then it may be helpful for Cate to explain the problem

The PROBLEM is, the dog is AFRAID on accHOWENT of people threaten and choke IT. to her friedn

Yeah, that’s sweeny. and perhaps offer suggestions to overcome the problem

Like GET RID OF THE DOG on accHOWENT of you bums don’t know HOWE to train IT. The friend knows there’s a problem;

But she don’t know HOWE to CURE it. after all, she’s the one who has to stitch up her own dog when she’s attacked.

She’s a vet. The first problem to overcome is one of denial that the situation could lead to the death of one or both dogs.

Pullin the fear card agin, cate? Is THAT HOWE COME you jerk and choke dogs? If you’ve ever known anyone in denial,

Ooops! you know that a few words from a friend

Your friend knows you’re a mental case who’s got fear aggression and hyperactive behavior problems with your own dog who’s GOIN BLIND from STRESS and CHOKING. aren’t enough to open one’s eyes.

Look at your own posted case history. The fact that the friend is a vet might be leading to some of the denial:

She’d rehabilitate her dogs NEARLY INSTANLY if you told her abHOWET The Amazing Puppy Wizard’s FREE WWW Wits’ End Dog Training Method Manual. But you won’t on accHOWENT of you PREFER to HURT INTIMDATE and MURDER dogs. If she were a layperson and had to, as a client, take her dog to a disapproving vet every time this happened, she might be getting feedback that inspired her to change her behavior.

You HURT her dog you miserable mental case. As it is, there’s an insulation that I’m hoping to penetrate a little by giving her some reading materials by behavior experts.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!! Post your EXXXPERTS bunk right here and The Amazing Puppy Wizard will choke you with it. I do recognize there’s validity in what you say about training the small dog not to approach the big dog when he’s got a treat, but the small dog is on medication for epilepsy that drastically changes her normal food-seeking behavior for the worse.

BWEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAHAAA!!! You’ll use ANY EXXXCUSE for failure. IOW, there is hardly a waking minute when this dog isn’t seeking food,

That’s from ANXXXIHOWESNESS. and training will only ameliorate that but so much.

BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!! You’re full of crap. It’s and ANXXXIHOWESNESS behavior and that will be CURED NEARLY INSTANTLY as will the FEAR AGGRESSION if you’d stop choking crating intimidating and bribing the dog. So good management becomes key,

NO. Your "MANAGEMENT" is HOWE COME you CAN’T TRAIN the dog. Your CRATES make dogs ANXXXIHOWESS. but it isn’t always used here.

You’re a pathetic mental case. Cate

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t now whether Peach is dead or alive. I do know she’s not here with us. I really can’t blame anyone here for her loss. I’m the one who ignored your advice. I did it because of how you write/wrote. I was unwilling to accept the idea that my using a shock collar could have any bearing on Peach not wanting to stay home. Up until I started using it my main concern had been keeping my dogs in their own yard. Once I started using the e-fence…well, then my concern became how to keep them from running off for days on end. I lost valuable training time becoming embroiled in the anti-shock debate and the "Jerry sux" tirades. I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in the world now <g A Wits End Trained dog, one who is completely housetrained, doesn’t chew up stuff, stays in the yard, and doesn’t bark all the time. IOW a great companion and friend. Thanks Jerry!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring. Two dogs, two collars We now have one dog and no collars. Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want to come back in the yard and would run for days. The last time, Peach didn’t come back home. I used the Wit’s End Training Manual to learn how to train my dog. She is now border trained. A few minutes each day reinforces her desire to stay in the yard. She no longer runs out into the road, I can stop her from chasing cats and she no longer cringes when we walk around the yard. I can not say loud or long enough how much I hate the e-fence and its collars. If you can’t get a regular fence then you need to train your dog. I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep my dog in our yard again. The price was too high:-( ~misty

Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry. He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth! Out of these MILLIONS, I’ve only seen 2 naive childs come forward and actually believe in his training manual. Robert Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs since I freely admit to having read and, I hope, understood enough of the manual and it’s counterparts by John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe and use it. This naive child would like to say thank you to both Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly adult dog lovers. The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the nagging idea that if people like them had been posting earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he gasped his last gasp. To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog into good behavior. Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake names are more honest than people that use their real names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.) are the equal or better than those that have studied and lived by their craft for decades. "Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are going to just go away because you people act like fools. Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I don’t really care. and actually admit to buying and having success with his little black box.

I don’t see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve, eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei."…….right. Terri

Yes it was, and that is sad. Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to listen to the box first?)

Response:

HOWEDY paula,

Sometimes it’s not unusual for people to not follow good advice unless they pay for that advice.

BWEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHHAAA!!! You’d have to be a MENTAL CASE to believe that. Oh? HEY? Lookey here: BREAKING MENTAL ILLNESS NEWS! DATELINE: August 6, 2004 NEWSGROUPS: Dog Related + ARK California Mormon Mom come Kibologist Paula Makes Dog Newsgroup Mental Illness History OUR FIRST CRAZY MORMON Paula is a divorced Mormon Mom who dabbles freely in Kibology, leaving herself at risk for being Smite into a pile of rubble by either an angry, vengeful God or worse yet, a Kibo unglued. As a California based youth counselor, Paula helps children deal with physical & emotional problems while dealing with mental problems of her own. Particularly chronic depression for which she is drugged. Paula has a long history of questioning her faith, questioning her mother and worrying about whether or not she’ll be excommunicated for the thoughts in her head. With good reason, after spending so much time fraternizing with free thinking, blaspheming Kibologists. At one point, when Paula was suffering from a heavy bout of depression, and in violation of Mormonology and her mother’s own advice, she eschewed prayer and instead enlisted the heelp of Harco Industries own twillis, who cruelly flaunted her vaunted Paxil supply "Sorry, go ride a horse, hands off my Paxil." says HARCO’s twillis WON’T SHARE MY PAXIL WITH PAULA Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology I need something to get me out of this deepening depression. I prescribe a horseback ride. Really. I’d share my Paxil with you, but I’m selfish. twillis To which Paula responded: THE PAXIL IS NOT ENOUGH "HAH! Paxil stopped working for me and I had to switch to Celexa, for the really and truly messed up!" Paula Thad Van Cenks paula’s concise thesis on depression: THE PRINGLES ARE NOT ENOUGH Oh, honey! Pringles are never an adequate defense against depression. It takes large amounts of premium ice cream, at the very least. THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH BUT ZOLOFT IS TOO MUCH BETTER FAT THAN DEAD Also, zoloft is not a good anti-depressant because it makes you fat. Or so an acquaintance of mine told me. I refrained from pointing out to her that being fat was not exactly a bad trade-off if you stopped being suicidal in so many words. SERIOUSLY, CHRONIC DEPRESSION IS LIKE THIS Seriously, chronic depression is all about feeling like shit and not knowing why. If there were a reason, it would be "the blues" or something equally not quite fuzzy but not really serious sounding. YOU KNOW, LIKE FEMALE TROUBLE THAT’S WHERE GOOD DRUGS COME IN UNLESS YOU LISTEN TO MY MOM You know, like "female trouble." This is where good drugs come in. Unless you listen to my mom, who thinks that you should be able to pray and read your scriptures and serve others to happiness and full enjoyment of living. The rest of us wish she would It seems that Paula’s mom tries to make her feel bad for being mental, just like Sighthounds aka Mustang Sally tried to make Kelly aka Culprit feel bad about her mental problems WISH YOU WOULD SHUT THE HELL UP AND GET ON SOME MEDS YOURSELF, MOM! not only shut up about how to treat our issues but also stay on some good meds herself. DRUGS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN PRAYERS OR PRINGLES BUT FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, DRUGS WORK BETTER Anyway, I have to say the good drugs route works much better and takes less time, too. It’s more expensive than praying and pringles, but it’s worth it. Get thee to a good psychiatrist. If you can find a good therapist, that helps, too. DO NOT BEAT YOURSELF UP Do not in any way, shape or form beat up on yourself for your depression making no sense or not being made worse by commercials, however. That is an order. Paula Paula’s mother would prefer that her children pray to the Mormon God or Jesus, or whomever the Mormons pray to, but Paula and her brother prefer drugging themselves instead. MY BROTHER, MY PAXIL Youre talking to someone on meds for Social Phobia. Ummm…what are those? I need to know for, like, a friend. PAXIL MADE ALL THE DIFFERENCE For my brother, paxil made all the difference. He feels like a new person, and acts like one too. And he has been living with a hawt chyk for years now when before he had problems with supervisors at work, with friendships and with wimmin because he just never felt socially comfortable. It really has made a huge difference for him. Paula Paula discussing both her own, and more specifically, the mental problems of her husband before they got divorced, exhibiting a slight masochistic bent: Newsgroups: soc.religion.mormon ASKED HUBBY TO BEAT ME Yes. I once told my husband that I wished he would hit me. He didn’t believe me. I asked him what was more hurtful and had the longest lasting and most devastating effect on him, the physical abuse or the emotional abuse he suffered as a child. HE COULD ONLY CRY BUT AGREED TO GO TO COUNSELING He could only cry. He agreed to go to counseling immediately after processing that question. I don’t think you have to sit around while your spouse beats WHO IS BEATING WHOM? up your spirit any more than you are expected to sit around waiting for the next physical beating. There are other reasons cancellations of sealings have been granted, even in the stricter days, so it appears there are various "legitimate" reasons for divorce, even when it is a temple marriage Paula uses her own mental illness experience to help her in her capacity as counselor to others who are suffering with mental problems. Here, Paula coaches Matt into taking some Paxil, so that Skylab won’t fall on him. PAULA, I KNOW SKYLAB IS GOING TO FALL ON ME No, it’s a sign that *I personally* have a tendency to become worried about catastrophic consquences of everything. I’ve known this for a long time– when I was twelve, I was convinced that Skylab was going to fall ON ME PERSONALLY– MATT, TAKE IT EASY AND TAKE SOME PAXIL Matt, you are a sweetheart, but definitely a worrying sweetheart. I hope you can find a way to calm down your fears and turn off that cycle of escalating worry. I have an aunt like that and she has literally driven herself crazy…. I don’t want you to end up like that. Take it easy and take some paxil. Paula

Response:

HOWEDY lugnut,

I’m trying to find a realistic way to help my friend change her habits.

cate wants her veterinarian friend to hurt her dog. She’s more apt than JQ Public to do so,

INDEED. She just don’t know HOWE. but she’s not any more immune to bad judgment and mistakes than are the rest of us.

cate took the opportunity to jerk and choke her dog for a HOWER or so and got some good results. The dog was a lot less aggressive after being hurt and intimdated by this mental case. I’m trying to find the right ‘in.’

cate wants her to GET RID of the dog on accHOWENT of he’s FEAR AGGRESSIVE of the other dogs. Sometimes it’s not unusual for people to not follow good advice

cate wants her to HURT or GET RID of the dog. unless they pay for that advice.

That’d be STEALIN. Maybe if she heard all of the suggestions from a trainer,

A EXXXPERT like yourself, lugnut? cate’s dog is GOIN BLIND from her abusing him. REMEMBER? then it might sink in.

cate’s dog GOT THE SAME PROBLEM, lugnut. If she objects to the cost or time, then remind her it’s a lot less costly and time consuming than the vet.

She IS the vet, you freakin simpleton. Ludwig Smith

BWEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHHAHAAA!!! Dog FAQS http://www.k9web.com/dog-faqs/

That so, lugnut? Your pals at k9web HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER dogs like this WON, lugNUT. Here’s a SUGGESTIN from your PROFESSIONAL TRAINER: "Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep The Pressure Up," sindy "don’t let the dog SCREAM" mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ’s pages on k9 web. You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???

Response:

Yeah, but your dogs GOT THE SAME PROBLEM.

I wonder if you are looking at the wrong problem – it seems your big dog is rightly defending its food, and personal space – if you want to intervene wouldn’t it be more appropriate to teach small dog to behave? I’d say that teaching both of them to behave would be a good start. I don’t see any benefit in tolerating fighting, and I see plenty of downside. Dogs living in a household together need to be able to resolve space disputes without blood being shed. — Melinda Shore – Software longa, hardware brevis –

According to the Congressional Budget Office, when the in Iraq is over it will cost $20 billion to restore the military to pre-war

preparedness

Response:

BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!! You could TRAIN the dog not to be AFRAID NEARLY INSTANTLY if you’d stop doin what you been doin…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – /snip/ We live in different states, so I can’t be involved as much as I might like. If she keeps long hours, perhaps a neighbor could offer ‘daycare’ for Big Dog, which could grow into more time. This is a good idea but ultimately comes back to the owner understanding the need for the dogs to be separated. If you’re not nearby, I don’t suppose you could find a suitable neighbor. I was thinking of some win-win situation. A neighbor saying, not "Your dog needs separation" but "I’d like to borrow your big watchdog while I’m at work." Margaret

Response:

HOWEDY margaret,

You mean GET RID of the dog, margaret? I don’t know if there is a shelter in your area whose personnel would be up to it either, or want to take the responsibility.

Yeah. It’s HARD to place a FEAR AGGRESSIVE dog. But if you or someone else found just the right home and brought them together,

You mean GET RID of the dog on accHOWENT of you don’t know HOWE to train a dog not to BE AFRAID when you jerk and choke and spray aversives into ITS face, margaret? maybe the owner would accept that as the easy way out,

You mean like TRAININ the dog NEARLY INSTANTLY to NOT BE AFRAID noMOORE, margaret? or at least give it a trial.

You mean TEMPORARILY GET RID of IT. Maybe when she noticed how much happier everyone was, she’d let it be permanent.

No margaret, on accHOWENT of FEAR AGGRESSION is CAUSED by MISHANDLING, not the ENVIRONMENT. Since she’s a vet, maybe some of her co-workers might suggest a customer who has lost a similar dog and would be good with this one:

You mean on accHOWENT of they can’t train a dog, margaret. a single-pet home who wants a dog that won’t be lonesome alone.

You mean INSTEAD of MAKIN THE DOG FEEL SAFE, margaret? You KNOW that’s INSANE. If she keeps long hours, perhaps a neighbor could offer ‘daycare’ for Big Dog, which could grow into more time.

On accHOWENT of you got NO IDEA HOWE to pupperly handle and train a dog, margaret. HOWEDY Lynda,

I’ve just met up with the usual crowd of dogs with Jake my 8 month old Border Collie.

According to Scott & Fuller, 8 months is a developmental stage dogs go through. While that’s true, the developmental stage got little to do with the temperament and behavior problems associated with it. He’s known by all for his loving and calm behaviour around the dogs/bitches and their owners.

That’s nice of you to come here to share that. So you can imagine my horror

No. You’ll have to advise us. when I heard barking and growling, really aggressive barking and saw it was Jake who was chasing after another dog.

Problemo. As someone said, there was utter hatred on his face.

All aggression is FEAR. All FEAR is CAUSED BY MISHANDLING. That’s GOOD. That means that ALL FEAR can be EXXXTINGUISHED NEARLY INSTANTLY by following the RULES of behavior as taught in your FREE copy of The Amazing Puppy Wizard’s FREE WWW Wits’ End Dog Training Method Manual available for FREE at http://www.doggydoright.com and ask The Amazing Puppy Wizard if you need any additional FREE heelp. The problem

There ain’t no problem. is he is big for his age, 56lbs

A dog is a dog. A three week old pup got all the brains he needs to learn anything you got the brains to teach him. and I dread to think what he would have done to this smaller dog.

Let’s PREY he don’t do the same same as leah robert’s "RECENT GRADUATE STUDENT" Rottie who JUST RECENTLY MURDERED a little DEAD DOG in the park, thanks to his SOCIALIZATION classes and obedience training since ten weeks of age. I reprimanded him

THAT will make him MOORE FEARFUL. (and I mean reprimanded him!!)

Yeah. THAT’S HOWE COME leah’s RECENT GRADUATE STUDENT Rottie MURDERED a little DEAD DOG in the park. and obviously put him on his lead.

You don’t need a lead to train a dog. IN FACT, that’s probably HOWE COME your dog became aggressive. I gave it 5 minutes and walked over to this owner to apologise.

No problem. I had Jake under full control

That so? Perhaps THAT’S HOWE COME your dog became aggressive. but he would have gone for this dog again,

PERFECT. no doubt,

Any behavior that’s CONSISTENT PREDICTABLE and REPEATABLE is EZ to EXXXTINGUISH NEARLY INSTANTLY if you know HOWE. so we moved away.

Avoiding and repressing behavior problems disavails you of training opportunities and causes behaviors to change, to other, often worse, seemingly non related behaviors. The other owners were stunned but said I should not worry,

Right. Not to worry. ALL behavior problems are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING. That’s GOOD. That means ALL behavior problems can be CURED NEARLY INSTANTLY if you understand and follow the INSTRUCTIONS in your FREE copy of The Amazing Puppy Wizard’s FREE WWW Wits’ End Dog Training Method Manual. it would be a personality clash.

Probably not. Not if all aggression is FEAR. "The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior Never Change, Or They’d Not Be Scientific And Would Not Obtain Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective Results For All Handler’s And All Dogs, NEARLY INSTANTLY, As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The Puppy Wizard’s FREE WWW Wits’ End Dog Training Method Manual," The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) Indeed Jake sat and all the other dogs/bitches came up to him whilst on his lead and he never batted an eyelid.

Yeah. That’s on accHOWENT of he was AFRAID you’d HURT and INTIMIDATE him someMOORE. But it has left me very shaken.

RELAX. You can’t train your dog if you’re in a panic. And you can’t train him if he’s AFRAID of you. Am I making too much of this one off?

No. Your dog is 8 months old. That means he’s likely to continue having behavior problems. There are two dogs who hate Jake and go for him

NO PROBLEMO. A dog is a dog. You can handle and train them the same same same same as you’ll handle and train Jake and noWON will be the WIZER. and their owners don’t seem half as worried as I was today but I take the responsiblity to other dogs and their owners seriously and I really do feel he would have not stopped at a nip.

FORGET abHOWET it. I know you probably don’t have any answers

BET YOUR LIFE ON IT. You’re askin liars dog abusers cowards and active long term incurable MENTAL CASES for advice for THE SAME PROBLEMS most of them got. They’ll tell you to KILLFILE The Amazing Puppy Wizard on accHOWENT of HE has IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED and DISCREDITED them as LIARS DOG ABUSERS COWARDS and ACTIVE LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES. but even reassurance would do right now.

FORGET abHOWET it. The MENTAL CASES you’re asking GOT THE SAME PROBLEMS. I am just about to ring my vet too,

Your vet can’t tain your dog no doGgamened better than the MENTAL CASES you’re askin here abHOWETS. he has said he won’t neuter Jake until 9 months

Neutering is unnecessary inapupriate surgical mutilation that makes 15% of dogs FEAR AGGRESSIVE.. HOWER DOG LOVERS surgically mutilate their dogs on accHOWENT of they think that’ll calm their HYPERACTIVE HOWETA CON-TROLL dogs. Their dogs GET HYPERACTIVE and HOWETA CON-TROLL on accHOWENT of they jerk choke shock and spray aversives in their dog’s faces when they’re AFRAID of their dog’s normal natural instinctive reflexive behaviors. but I wondered if he might reconsider.

FORGET abHOWET IT. Thanks for listening.

Yeah? Stick arHOWEND. Lynda

Val CURED her dog’s aggression in 3 DAYS. Nevyn CURED his two 3y.o. Pit Bull X bitches of dog aggression in 23 DAYS, withHOWET ever tellin them NO! of otherWIZE hurting or intimidating them. And HOWER MENTAL CASES are callin them LIARS and FORGERIES by The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{) ; ~ ) Val writes Monday, 6/3/02: Well, for what it’s worth, I am praising without physical contact and she does seem to listen better than when I would praise with it. I agree that it is a distraction. Anyway, no more aggressive behaviors from her since I started the Witts End.

Didja also see that he has ‘morphed’ into Valerie M. Holmes ????? Note: I am not saying there isn’t a VALID Valerie M. Holmes, but this one lives in howdy’s home. MB <G

HEY!!! There is a Valid Valerie with a REAL Dalmatian who is a real sweet dog with a few issues that I am working to resolve after adopting her from a shelter she spent 2 years in. All I want is to get some decent help for my dog. There is some decent stuff in Jerry’s manual. My dog has ACTUALLY been responding to her training. The deal is you have to separate your opinions and impressions from the guy who is writing these posts and take from the manual what you want. Personally, I get a pretty good chuckle out of the whole Jerry thing. I have to say the guy is pretty clever, you’re letting him get under your skin. It makes for a very amusing game I think. I’m sure he would agree, or he wouldn’t be playing everyday. He also wouldn’t be playing if he didn’t believe that his method of training weren’t valid. Perhaps I’ll learn from my mistakes, but so far, using the Wits’ End, I have gotten my dalmatian to listen to me, to look to me for direction, to wait for me to say when. I have changed her from an aggressive dog to one who is willing to please her owner, willing to listen, willing to assume her role in the pack. The real Valerie M. … read more »

Response:

HOWEDY margaret,

While visiting a friend last weekend, I observed some dog aggression issues

Yeah. And when ITS owners went HOWET for a while cate elected to jerk and choke IT for an HOWER or so and saw SOME inhibition of aggression… and would love to get the group’s take

Well, perhaps cate should ask SPECIFIC EXXXPERTS like leah or her MENTOR lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn who’ve got the EXXXPERIENCE to lead us through these treacherHOWES times where life and death HANGS in the BALANCE of the EXXXPERT professional trainer. BWEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHAAA!!! and maybe point her toward some good resources.

Like The Amazing Puppy Wizard’s FREE WWW Wits’ End Dog Training Method Manual, margaret? You KNOW The Amazing Puppy Wizard’s 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits’ End Dog Training Method Manual Students all over the Whole Wild World REPORT 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS rehabilitating and trainin ALL behaviors for all dogs and all handlers, and for FREE, to boot. She’s a vet, btw,

Yeah… a EXXXPERT. she mentioned that virtually all her colleagues (residents in a teaching hospital) also have animals with behavioral problems-

Well La, Di, Da? BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!! -because they all tend to adopt the ones no one else wants.

On accHOWENT of they DON’T KNOW HOWE to tell their CUSTOMERS HOWE to TRAIN their dogs, so your incompetent EXXXPERTS MURDER or disadvantage them and CALL IT RESCUE. BWEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!! /snip/ IIRC, she’s never done obedience classes with either dog, and isn’t likely to because of her demanding schedule.

Obedience GOT NUTHIN to do with FEAR EXXXCEPT that your OBEDICENCE TRAINING MAKES DOGS FEAR AGGRESSIVE If the owner is very busy and has too much on her mind already, for her to look for a better home would probably be too much to ask.

Yeah. She could TRAIN this dog in a couple days. MAYBE FASTER. MAYBE NEARLY INSTANTLY. But she’d have to FORGET EVERY THING she KNOWS abHOWET dogs behavior and trainin. I don’t know if there is a shelter in your area whose personnel would be up to it either, or want to take the responsibility.

That’s kindly of you to recommend GETTIN RID of the dog for a lack of INTELLECT, dog lovers. But if you or someone else found just the right home and brought them together, maybe the owner would accept that as the easy way out,

You mean INSTEAD of TRAININ the dog NEARLY INSTANTLY? or at least give it a trial.

You mean temporarily GET RID of the dog. Maybe when she noticed how much happier everyone was,

You mean after GETTIN RID of the BAD DOG, margaret? she’d let it be permanent.

HOWE can you post here abHOWETS, margaret? Since she’s a vet,

Duh? maybe some of her co-workers might suggest a customer who has lost a similar dog and would be good with this one: a single-pet home who wants a dog that won’t be lonesome alone.

BWEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!! If she keeps long hours, perhaps a neighbor could offer ‘daycare’ for Big Dog, which could grow into more time.

You mean to EASE the dog HOWETA HIS HOWES. Margaret

You’re a bunch of dog abusing mental cases. HOWEDY ccdox,

Are there any places near you that offer a "feisty fido" class?

You mean like this?: lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn: I spent this evening at a small group session on dog-human aggression hosted by Open Paw. Ian Dunbar was the speaker

That’s DOCTOR ian dunbar, dog behavior fraudS. and was very clear that he uses P.

You mean P as in PUNISHMENT or P as in PRAISE? Or P as in POO POO? We’re gonna quit using CONfHOWENDING scrabble terms and RELY on INTELLIGENCE and HONESTY, things you’ve YET to learn abHOWET cause you’ll do and say ANY THING to defend your alleged right to hurt and murder dogs as you PREFER. The distinction he made, and I think it’s at the heart of the issue, is that he only uses what he calls "instructive punishment".

IOW MOORE DHOWEble talk. lying "I LOVE KOEHELR" lynn REPORTED his "METHOD" DIDN’T WORK for her and her PALS who were at that "grHOWEL class": Lynn K.: In a talk on dog-dog aggression on 5/27. Given his propensity for repeating himself verbatim, I’ll bet he’s also written it somewhere My biggest take-home from that evening actually came from a brief conversation with Tricia999 & some co-workers afterwards. They confirmed my experience that "growl classes" don’t have a lasting impact on the reactivity of dog aggressive dogs. Our common experience was that the desensitization only lasted for the session and didn’t carry forward. Lynn K. So you see DOG LOVERS, YOUR METHODS DON’T WORK and YOUR EXXXPERTS ARE FRAUDS LIARS DOG ABUSERS COWARDS and ACTIVE LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES and IT’S IN BLACK AND WHITE and html. If not, what you can do (and this will take a very long time) is slowly desensitize him.

That’s a load of shit. ANY behavior that’s CONSISTENT PREDICTABLE or REPEATABLE is EZ to EXXXTINGUISH NEARLY INSTANTLY if you know HOWE. Like THIS: "Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn. lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver: For barking in the crate – leave the leash on and pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it. When he barks, use the line for a correction. - if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar. Lynn K. Take him in the car to a place where people will pass with dogs (a park) and, when you see a dog in the distance, praise your dog (before he barks)

AMAZING! and give him a treat.

No. That treat will teach the dog to aggress to get the treat or to defend the treat from the other dog. Dogs are SCAVENGERS. They STEAL SCRAPS and run to hide to eat them with their back to the wall in a heightened state of alert. THAT’S what you’re triggerin with your TREATS. Keep this up as the dog gets closer,

That’ll REINFORCE the behavior PROBLEM. only praising and giving a treat when your dog is quiet.

THAT’S INSANE. The ONLY time he’ll be QUIET is while he’s CHEWING TREATS. When you walk your dog, do the same thing; eventually, your dog should look at you when he sees another dog, and this is the behavior you want; praise and treat when your dog looks at you rather than barking at the other dog.

And what happens when you RUN HOWETA treats? Dorothy, owned by C.C., a very spoiled dachshund

You got PLENTY of treats?

Saturday, August 23, 2003 11:33 PM HOWERDY Group, Here some SUCCESS STORIES ive had using JERRYS MANUAL 1) My dogz, two bitches – Vicious, barking, agressive, pulled on leash, wanted to kill any dogs they saw, fought between each other. TWO WEEKS using Jerrys manual, they were calm, friends, my companions. 2) ADDED A BEAGLE PUPPY (male) to my "PACK", the girls had -NO PROBLEMS-with him from the moment I dropped him by their noses. 3) My FRIENDS dogs 2 MALES barking and jumping at the fence all night 3 DAYS TRAINING WITH JERRYS MANUAL they were CALMED AND HAVENT BARKED ONCE! Added a NEW MALE DOG (2 yrs old) AND WELCOMED HIM WITH NO WUCKAS ! 4) POODLE that ATE food from the KITCHEN BENCH – lock him in a box? NO! USE JERRYS MANUAL! 4 DAYS AND HES NEVER DONE IT SINCE ! 5) ABUSED DOGS AT THE SHELTER I WORK AT – HAD TO BE FED WITH A BUCKET ON A STICK – ONE WEEK ON JERRYS MANUAL, THE SUPERVISOR TOLD ME TO PUT THEM IN THE PUBLIC KENNELS FOR SALE ! Quite amazing to – I thought they were just dull coloured dogs, but after I had removed the fear and anxiety their hairs coloured up amazingly. 6) STAFFY FEMALE who would NOT DROP HER BALL! She carried it around all day and night – 3 DAYS on jerrys MANUAL and she now DROPS it when u ASK her to! BWHWHAHAHAHAAHA !!!! Nevyn Hello I have two mungrel females; the breeds exactly are Blue Heeler spots) x Kelpi (dominant genes) x American Pitbull (behavioural) x Pug don’t laugh!). They are gentle loving dogs when I’m at home with them, and they are riendly with unknown people. They are sisters. One is obviously ominant over the other, and I don’t have a problem with that, however; Their behaviour is very odd. Some days they are very good whilst I’m walking them, some days they are not. They are 3 years old and have only been walking for about 12 months because my mom didn’t walk them and now I’m home so I walk them for about an hour and half every afternoon. I take them to the park where they chase birds and swim in the lake. This is my problem : The less-dominant dog viscously barks at every other dog we walk past; I have tried using a stick and giving her a tap when she does it, and treating her with treats when she doesn’t, using a choke chain, a muzzle and a thing that sprays stuff in her mouth when she barks. She won’t stop! Does anyone know how I can stop her? ] Also, the more-dominant dog seems to know this is WRONG, when the other dog barks, she doesn’t bark, but she nips at the other dog as if telling her to cut it out, and then the barking one attacks the more-dominant one and they fight on the leash… it is quite disturbing to the people walking past. And also the more-dominant one is okay around other dogs… SOMETIMES… sometimes she completely ignores them, and yet other times she will attack them, like yesterday. The less dominant one I must keep on a leash if a person brings there dog to the park. How do I stop them attacking other dogs? I have tried all the methods I have … read more »

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i guess i don’t assume everyone is too lazy or uncaring to try to change their habits. i must add that this attitude of mine probably stems from the fact that i changed several of my bad dog owner habits after learning from others on these groups. i guess i’d like to think others can change too. I’m generally one of the least condemning people here and always try to give people the benefit of doubt. I think most of us have changed one of our ways or views over the years due to gaining knowledge from this ng. Sometimes though the information provided is enough to draw a general conclusion. Its my hope that the lady in question will try to change, at least manage the situation, but I find it scarey that she hasn’t done any remedying to date. I don’t expect you to like my interpretation or suggestion but I think its unfair to imply that some of us (or me specifically) always assume the worst or that we’re unwilling to help. I wouldn’t waste my time typing to this ng for as long as I have if I weren’t genuinely interested in helping people who may not yet know as much as I do (and there are a ton of people who know a hell of alot more than me so its give & take). — Tara

"Tending To Agree With The Positive Reinforcement Method"? HOWEDY People, Hello Tara, m… I tend to agree with the positive reinforcement method. Oh, that’s nice. I tend to think people who tend to agree with positive reinforcement methods tend to be pulling our chains… That’s what I tend to think, based on my experience working with people who tend to agree with positive reinforcement who TEND TO hurt their dogs when their tendencies to use positive methods are outweighed by their tendencies to run out of information or intellect and TEND to get frustrated and TEND NOT to do the things they TEND TO believe are right, when they TEND to be frustrated, or TEND to be at a loss for INTELLECT, and TEND TO resort to violence because they TEND to be shy on BRAINS… I TEND TO view those folks as hypocrites, that’s what I TEND to do because I just happen to TEND to be HONEST, IMO, shock collars should be used only after normal obedience training methods have failed. If your NORMAL obedience training TENDED to properly train dogs, there would be a TENDENCY to have well trained dogs. But that’s not the case, because NORMAL obedience training TENDS to provoke, intimidate, and confound your dog and inhibit his ability to think and learn to want to work and think and learn… SEE? That’s what I TEND to think about NORMAL obedience training which TENDS to FAIL because it TENDS to resort to VIOLENCE instead of TENDING TOWARDS THE MOST EFFECTIVE SCIENTIFIC METHODS AVAILABLE. It just bothers me to imagine shocking my dog, even at a very low frequency. It bothers me less to think of shocking the dog than thinking about what punishment and confrontation can do to a dog’s temperament. That’s what I tend to think based on my thirty eight years professional experience training dogs. I will definitely admit that there are many dogs who either can’t or won’t benefit from training without such things as e-collars. Is that based on your thirty eight years of experience specializing in temperament and behavior problems and protection training in giant breed dogs? Or is that based on your TENDENCY to believe incompetent dog abusing Thugs who tell you they TEND to get excellent results from HURTING dogs to train them because they TEND NOT TO be intelligent enough to outwit the cunning of the domestic puppy dog??? OR IS IT BASED ON YOUR TENDENCY TO MURDER YOUR OWN DEAD DOG Summer? I just hope its a last-resort, not a first. And I just hope you figure out why your pals here who hurt dogs to train them TEND to claim they have me in their killfiles, because they TEND NOT TO be able to answer my questions in good conscience…That’s what they TEND to do around here because our lying dog abusing Thugs TEND to be INCOMPETENT, IMMORAL, UNETHICAL, UNPRINCIPLED, DOG ABUSING COWARDS. Like yourself. That’s what I tend to think. Your pal, Jerry "The PHONY," Howe. j;~} The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{) ; ~ ) NC Boxer Rescue Abuse HOWEDY People Here’s WON of HOWER MENTAL CASES hurtin dogs and lying abHOWET it again. "I’m shocked that I shocked" Due to someone reprimanding Jar-Jar & the word "rescue" in the post, I decided to read down and see what he was spewing now. I was able to learn that besides choking, pinching, crating, abusing and murdering my dog, I also shocked her. I must be suffering from amnesia. Can someone point me to a post where I said I shocked my dog, or any dog, or that I even know *how* to use an e-collar….assuming I had one which must have been stolen at the same time I lost my memory. One would think Jerry would be happy with the "murder" part and all my other training sins but evidently not. — Tara HOWEDY tara o., You didn’t HURT INTIMIDATE and MURFDER your own DEAD DOG Summer: Labs are a breed that are normally trained for field work with ear pinches, e-collars and other forms of physical interaction without making them fearful or aggressive. I think its pertinent to mention that I’ve never had any dogs who exhibited signs of aggression or were in any way, shape, or form resistent to whatever "training" I did with them. I would not feel comfortable relying on my past experience or a book to train a dog to stop biting, snapping or growling. — Tara O. I cant seem to understand why people believe prong collars are cruel and inhumane. They do nothing more than pinch, getting the attention of the animal. Choke collars, on the other hand, do permanent damage. They bruise the esophagus. Shock collars will eventually destroy nerve endings, much the same as electric fencing. Joshua, you have just reopened a can of worms that can quickly cause infestation here lol — Tara O. People are tired of being abused and insulted simply for saying they use a prong collar, or a choke collar, or an e-collar, or a crate, etc. If you want to LEARN more about dog training and dog behavior, then listen to what they have to say, too. "I’ve never not listened to what people say here. I use a crate, am about to begin with a choke collar, I’m not the bad guy here." tara o. ""Twzl, Sligo and Roy Happy Together"" wrote BTW, this is one of the frequent topics on obedience email lists. When people say that they haven’t used corrections, it turns out that they feel that if they do it, it’s not a real correction. That makes sense in a weird sort of way. I don’t honestly think that its humanly possible to train anyone or anything without correction. Its human nature to say ‘no’ or to stop a behavior by doing something. I used a tin can with coins to correct Summer’s bad puppy behaviors and the cold shoulder to correct her other less desirable behaviors. I have said ‘no’ so many times that I probably sound like a broken record. Amie can attest to that lol. It seems to me that some people are automatically equating the term correction with punishment. I guess they can go hand in hand since my tin can wasn’t something Summer liked. My ignoring her when she’s misbehaving is also something she doesn’t

Response:

Could be your medication needs adjusting…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t expect you to like my interpretation or suggestion but I think its unfair to imply that some of us (or me specifically) always assume the worst or that we’re unwilling to help. sorry, that was not the point i was trying to get across. just trying to show why i might have a little bit different viewpoint. no finger pointing was intended. -kelly

Response:

YOU MURDERED YOUR OWN DEAD DOG Summer for FEAR AGGRESSION of SMALL CHILDREN. REMEMBER?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i don’t think rehoming the dog would be my first suggestion, Rehoming the dog is a first suggestion because the owner is showing an appalling disregard for the safety of the other 5 animals in her home. Whether she’s unwilling, lazy, uncaring, ignorant or overly optimistic doesn’t really matter because the end result is the same in that she’s going to come home to dead animals one of these days. I’m surprised she hasn’t already. but then i voluntarily choose to share my home with two potentially aggressive dogs, so i may be a little nuts. :-) Yes but do you leave your dogs loose with no supervision when you & SO are not home? I don’t know any multiple Pit Bull owners who do so. One or both dogs are usually confined when humans are absent for the dogs’ own protection. — Tara

Response:

HOWEDY culprit aka kelly aka metta (metta is kelly aka culprit’s aka on the MENTAL PERSONS news groups so she don’t get STIGMATIZED as a MENTAL CASE on non mental person’s news groups),

Yes but do you leave your dogs loose with no supervision when you & SO are not home?

BWEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAHAAA!!! Most of you simpletons can’t even HOWEsbreak your own dogs like tara o. aka tee’s DoxHOWEND. I don’t know any multiple Pit Bull owners who do so.

A dog is a dog. Pit Bull dog lovers are predominately dog abusing punk thug cowards and active long term incurable mental cases like you or dog fighting fans like john richardson. Cowards, liars and dog abusers who choke shock spray aversives in your dog’s faces lock them in boxes and MURDER the WONS you’re AFRAID to HURT and INTIMIDATE someMOORE. One or both dogs are usually confined when humans are absent for the dogs’ own protection.

On accHOWENT of they ATTACK EACH OTHER when their ABUSER isn’t standin there ready to HURT and INTIMDIATE them someMOORE. of course my dogs are confined when no one can supervise.

On accHOWENT of they AIN’T TRAINED. i’m sure i’ve said that about a million times in this group and others.

Your dogs attack each other and MURDERED your own DEAD KAT on accHOWENT of YOU HURT and INTIMDATED THEM. i thought Cate’s friend was looking for suggestions.

cate’s dog is DYIN from STRESS INDUCED AUTO- IMMUNE DIS-EASE aka The Puppy Wizard’s SYNDROME and has GONE BLIND from her ABUSE. i was offering some.

BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAAAA!!! i guess i don’t assume everyone is too lazy or uncaring to try to change their habits.

RIGHT. THAT’S HOWE COME YOU TAKE ANTI PSYCHOTIC DRUGS. -kelly

Her kat was beloved, death was her blessing:

you want to know what kind of person your pal tpw is?

The Amazing Puppy Wizard is the only dog trainer in history who teaches people all over the Whole Wild World to handle train and rehabilitate ALL behavior problems NEARLY INSTANTLY for FREE, withHOWET HURTIN noWON. i just got a personal email from him (because i made the mistake of responding to you, i’m sure), cc’d to a bunch of other folks i don’t know,

Marilyn and professor dermer and perhps Larry, cause THEY understand a little abHOWET behavior. in which he harasses and verbally abuses me about my recently deceased cat

You mean the kat you trained your dogs to MURDER. and the state of my health.

Well perhaps if you wasn’t MENTAL you wouldn’ta HURT your dogs till they MURDERED your DEAD kat. yes, he’s using the recent death of a beloved animal as ammunition to try to upset me.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard is QUOTING YOUR CASE HISSSTORY of TRAINING YOUR DOGS to MURDER YOUR KAT by FORGETTING to PUT their SHOCK COLLARS on them when you got back from the vet after $1500.00 in surgery. you still call this guy amusing?

You wanna see amusing?: "we’ll keep the indoor boundary set up, and keep ***testing the dogs with it (hiding behind the railing and meowing usually does the trick)*** so that they’re familiar with the warning tone. Manu is already pretty sure he knows what it means, and whenever Lola trips it, he’ll bite her hind leg and pull her down the steps so the tone stops. he’s such a big brother, always trying to keep sis out of trouble." And THEN (Drumroll please, Mr. Maestro…): Your Attention to center ring… "anyway,

No. Get it RIGHT. You mean anyHOWE. "we had it installed outside today, and started the indoor part of training. we decided to put the training fence on the stairway, since the cats like to hang out up there and the dogs aren’t allowed to go up."

"i dropped of Mo upstairs, as usual, and headed down to let the dogs out of their crates. for some reason i’ll never know, *(EVERY WON KNOWS NHOWE.) *(forgetting to put their SHOCK COLLARS ON THEM) Mo followed me downstairs. he never does this. and i didn’t hear him coming. however, the dogs did. they ran to investigate, and found a strange smelling, bloody cat in their house. needless to say, they attacked him" Cause culprit aka kelly aka METTA FORGOT to put their shock collars back on after uncrating them and she DIDN’T TELL MO THEY WASN’T WEARIN THEIR SHOCK COLLARS. i call him frightening.

Naaah. Leavin you runnin loose is frightenin. -kelly

HOWEDY People,

she’s darling.

INDEEDY. Like HOWE culprit aka kelly aka metta’s $7,000.00 DEAD kat WAS. the pups wish her a speedy recovery.

The PUPS would MURDER her just like HOWE YOU TRAINED THEM to MURDER YOUR OWN DEAD KAT. since i can’t have cats for a while,

Cause you trained your dogs to MURDER IT. i’d like to experience them vicariously,

A WIZE idea. so please feel free to keep posting pix and stories!

INDEEDY. LikeWIZE, The Amazing Puppy Wizard will keep posting YOUR CASE HISTORY to IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE and DISCREDIT you and your pals as the lying animal abusng mental cases you are. Here’s the IN-complete story (short version) of HOWE culprit aka kelly aka metta (metta is culprit aka kelly’s aka on the MENTAL PERSONS news groups) TRAINED HER DOGS to MURDER HER DEAD KAT: -kelly

while walking backwards

Anyway, contrary to your PR, this is what it felt like to me when I got shocked by Hope’s collar. It felt like a bomb going off in my hand and forearm.

how effective are these electronic fences in keeping a dog on a property???? Some run through it. Others get shocked and become too scared to go out in the yard anymore. Just heard of a guy that has to rehome his dog, because the dog got caught right in the path of the shock and will now not go near his person, won’t go outside. Just hides under a desk in the house.

there are different brands of fences, and each one has a variety of settings, set to the dog’s specific reaction. Lola’s collar is set to give more juice than Manu’s, because she’s more likely to ignore the buzz, whereas Manu wants nothing to do with it. i have no idea what brand or setting Hope’s collar was set at. there’s also the fact that Hope has lots of thick fur and a good fat layer (to keep her warm in the water) and my dogs are scrawny and nekkid. so maybe Hope needs a higher setting to work for her. it’s really hard to say without comparing the collars directly. and you’re right, if Lola really wants out of the yard, she’ll run through the fence. the annoyance doesn’t keep her in, which is why she’s always supervised outdoors. Manu, OTOH, is happy to stay as far from the fence as he can. what can i say, he’s part eevil pit bull and part fraidy cat. -kelly after having the appraisal for the real fencing coming out at over $11,000, we decided to put up an invisible fence, just until we can save some cash for the real one. after we put up the real fence, the invisible one will probably remain as a "fail safe" to keep the dogs off the real fence. yes, i’m aware of most of the cons, i’ve always been against them myself, until i talked to a lot of people who have them, and had the invisible fence trainer come out to meet the dogs. i’ll only be letting them out when i’m home and can keep a direct eye on them, and we’ve discussed it with all of the neighbors, and they’ve committed to containing their dogs, so they won’t come into my yard unless invited. anyway, we had it installed outside today, and started the indoor part of training. we decided to put the training fence on the stairway, since the cats like to hang out up there and the dogs aren’t allowed to go up. we put up a baby gate just past the invisible barrier, so that they can’t go through it, even if they want to. i tried the collar on myself before we let the dogs try it, and while it is uncomfortable, it’s not painful, and i’m comfortable with the dogs wearing it. we thought Manu would require a higher setting than Lola, because she’s pretty sensitive to correction, and he is a big meathead who doesn’t feel a thing. this played out with the first part of training, with Lola turning around and leaving the steps at the first buzz, and Manu just standing there, wagging his tail, like he didn’t feel a thing. we upped the setting three more times before Manu "got it", and then he immediately turned around and didn’t go up the steps at all after that. the weird thing is that Lola, who was clearly bothered by the experience, kept trying to go up to get the cat’s area anyway. this confirmed something i had suspected. Lola may be more sensitive to correction, but she also has more "drive", and will put up with something she dislikes longer than Manu will. Lola sat on the steps, cycling through the collar’s three 10 second failsafe cycles, then tried to climb over the baby gate as though nothing had happened. we decided to up the correction one setting, with the theory that she’d find it so unpleasant it would stop her from climbing the steps, then we’d turn it back down once she realized she shouldn’t be up there.

Response:

HOWEDY culprit aka kelly aka metta, YOUR OWN DOGS GOT THE SAME PROBLEM. REMEMBER? YOUR OWN DOGS MURDERED YOUR OWN DEAD KAT. REMEMBER? YOUR OWN DOGS STARTED ATTACKING EACH OTHER AND MURDERED YOUR OWN DEAD KAT TWO WEEKS AFTER YOU STARTED SHOCKING THEM. REMEMBER?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While visiting a friend last weekend, I observed some dog aggression issues and would love to get the group’s take and maybe point her toward some good resources. She’s a vet, btw, and she mentioned that virtually all her colleagues (residents in a teaching hospital) also have animals with behavioral problems–because they all tend to adopt the ones no one else wants. She has two dogs. Small Dog (40 lbs, spayed female, 8 yo, Vizsla) has health problems including epilepsy and behavioral issues including separation anxiety which mostly manifests as pacing and escaping/tearing apart metal and plastic crates. Big Dog (95 lbs, neutered [at 1 yo] male, 5 yo, likely Rottie-Dane mix) has aggression issues including 1) attacking Small Dog when she seizes, 2) attacking Small Dog when she comes too close to his bone, and 3) growling at Small Dog or any of 3 cats when they come to close to anywhere he’s quietly napping. He’ll also occasionally growl at Small Dog as she paces. <disclaimer i’m not an expert </disclaimer but… 1) i don’t think it’s uncommon for a dog to attack another dog who is having a seizure, even if there are no other aggression issues. hopefully Matt has more to say on this. 2) sounds like resource guarding. all the standard stuff should help, like not leaving bones and special toys laying about, only offering them when the dogs are separated. supervising the dogs at all times or separating them if they can’t be supervised. feeding the dogs separately. working with the dog on "give", taking and returning the bone, etc. 3) this may also be a resource issue, as the "alpha" he has first pick of sleeping spots. Lola does this to Manu, even kicking him out of spots. with us it’s never gotten beyond a quiet growl and Manu moving his butt somewhere else, but i wouldn’t count on that in your friend’s case. i’d suggest teaching the dog that his crate is his sleeping place, period. or get each dog their own pillow/dog bed, and enforce the idea that each dog is only allowed to sleep on their bed, not anywhere else. of course, i’d also recommend she consult with a behaviorist or trainer who specialized with aggressive dogs. i don’t think rehoming the dog would be my first suggestion, but then i voluntarily choose to share my home with two potentially aggressive dogs, so i may be a little nuts. :-) -kelly

Response:

HOWEDY malinda, Your dogs GOT THE SAME PROBLEM on accHOWENT of you ABUSE them. ALL AGGRESSION IS FEAR and ALL FEAR IS CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Interesting. I hadn’t thought of solo time as enforcing his idea that he’s all that as much as letting him know he doesn’t have to fight to be with her. Again, without knowing anything beyond what you’ve posted here, there’s a risk of the dog developing a sense of entitlement. What I’ve noticed among my dogs is that "alphaness" really involves a sense of prerogative more than it does rigid behavioral characteristics, and that if a dog feels he’s entitled to something in particular he’ll simply take it, and if it involves a smackdown on one of the other dogs so be it. Fortunately they work these things out through countless tiny negotiations every day. One of the most interesting things in straightening out Saber’s fighting problem was realizing that he couldn’t be allowed up on the furniture – inevitably he’d pick a fight within the day after having gotten up on the bed or one of the sofas. It was like clockwork. Obviously I can’t know whether or not there’s a similar situation here but I would tend not to risk allowing the dog to think that he’s got more status than he has. Dogs tend to figure that out anyway as a normal part of the training process, but sometimes it takes more than that. — Melinda Shore – Software longa, hardware brevis –

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fibbers’ forecasts are worthless

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(3) sounds like resource guarding as well (guarding space) so a good book to look at would be "Mine!" by Jean Donaldson. — Melanie Lee Chang | Form ever follows function. Departments of Anthropology and Biology | University of Pennsylvania | – Louis Sullivan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been trying for the last 18 months to help my dog who became fear aggressive at 18 month of age. I do not know what started the problem but he came aggressive first with dogs and then began lunging and snapping at people. Until this time he loved everyone and could play with any dog. He was well socialized ad I took him with me everywhere. At 13 months he passed the Canine Good Citizens Test except he could let me leave him. I had used clicker training to teach him manners and tricks but it was not working on his aggression problem. I took him to vets who suggested a low protein diet, trainers who charged $800 to only make him worse. They tried to use a prong collar and he froze, urinated and tried to climb on my head to help him. they then suggested a shock collar I knew this approach was not working as he was becoming more aggressive. I took him to an animal behaviorist with Ph.D. 400 miles away who told me to "KEEP HIM SAFE" and read a book on the fearful canine. I tried another trainer who tried to use a nylon chock collar but it only made him worse. I read hundreds of books,"CULTURE CLASH", "DOG ARE FROM NEPTUNE", "THE OTHER END OF THE LEASH", ETC looking for help. We finally went to Purdue University Small Animal Behavior Clinic and they said he had fear aggression, punishment would not work, use the gentle leader and when out walking and he got stressed have the people stop until he could get in control using treats,and work on clicker training. At that point I knew more about clicker training and using the gentle leader than they did! Nothing was working–he would not come when I called him and would run away when I tried to catch him. I was afraid to walk him even in the neighborhood as we had become that "mean dog and women who hasn’t trained her dog." I went to four trainers in both Michigan and Florida who were trainer/specialists in aggression and the last two were so afraid of him they could not approach him. No one said I should give up on him and kill him but they would say "You have to realize he is dangerous and you are responsible for him."

You got LUCKY, Linda… They coulda got Sunshine DEAD on us. Damned near did… too. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As last resort I tried the internet again–I had had on going discussions with trainers from Triple Crown and Dr Meister with out any help-and I found the ad to Doggy Do Right and messaged Jerry to ask if this might help my dog. He said solving the aggression problem was EZ but I could not believe him even when I downloaded the manual. The name of the method was right I was at my Wits End. I had been working for 18 months! Using the can sound three time he came, and still comes from anywhere with the command-"comegoodboy" Next I tried the can when walking him–when he saw a dog three blocks away he went off-lunging and snapping-I used the can sound and he looked at me like uhn? I used it three more times and we got to the other dog- -the looked at me wagging his tail–the other person looked at me like why are shaking that can but just walked on by. When ever I try to explain about the sound people look at me like "you must be out of your mind" The results can make a believer!!! Three weeks since beginning the Wits End Training Manual program I walked him without the gentle leader in a busy shopping area with many dogs. He just seemed to not notice any one. When people talked to him or ask his name he would look at then and wag his tail and let then pet him. I still can not believe the change in him–we can now enjoy life out in public. If I had not found the Wits End method I know there was no hope for him and he would have hurt someone. Through all this he never growled at me, guarded his toys or food or showed any sign of aggression with me. My goal is to get the message out to all dog lovers that dogs can be trained fast, easily and problems solved with out force, pain, food or anything but sound and praise!!!! I know most people would have given up on him a long time ago but he was and is my life. Solving the problem was EZ but only with the right approach-sound and praise. I know because I tried everything else and nothing worked!!!

——- Message —– To: Jerry Howe Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:06 AM Thanks for writing–I would be happy to do almost anything to get your approach out to dog owners as I know it would save so many lives. I know at times I was so frustrated I thought of giving up on Sunshine but of course I never would have but many people would have. The world just does not know you can train a dog in just a few sessions and actually solve problems. We will be here until late April and we really have no plans- -just to enjoy the warmth and sun of Florida, so any time you could meet us would be great. I drive so I would be happy to come to you anytime anywhere! We went to Celebration today and two little poodles got right into his face and he just sat there–I GOT a little scared but he handled it just fine.–a couple of times people would ask his name and want to pet him and he just went to them tail wagging and rolled over for them rub his tummy. He really just is not concerned about people passing, even those on rollerblades! I have always used a gentle leader in public but he spent most of time rubbing his face on the grass–today I used his collar and he was so much happier!! Only problem is he will stop to smell and I can not get stopped soon enough to keep the leash loose. He never pulled ahead of me but when he gets into smelling I have a hard time getting him going–at times I think he could smell a blade of grass for 10 minutes. I can never thank you enough for giving Sunshine back!!!!! I wrote to Purdue and told them about him being able to walk in a crowd with out the /gentle leader and not having a problem with other people and dogs. I told them their advice did not work. Their advice was to use the gentle leader at all times and when he was around people or dogs to have him sit and reward with treats–one really good suggestions was to have people coming toward us stop when he got stressed or aroused and not move until we backed away- – can you just see me yelling at people to stop on the street until I get his attention with treats. They also suggested the possibility of using drugs-prozac- but thought he was too dangerous as the drug would make him less fearful and then he might attack or become more sure of himself and become dominate aggressive. Just had to share their great advice with you but I am sure you have heard it all–even I am becoming an expert on bad advice.

Response:

HOWEDY cate,

@panix2.panix.com: I’m not sure I’d do that, actually.

Of curse, malinda’s dogs GOT THE SAME PROBLEM. The solo jogging or the training classes?

ALL AGGRESSION IS FEAR. ALL FEAR IS CAUSED BY MISHANDLING. For resources, I continue to really like Ian Dunbar’s stuff on dog aggression.

Yeah. An EXXXCELLENT point! I saw a Dunbar booklet on Amazon called Preventing Aggression, but it appears to be out of print.

Oh. PERHAPS THAT’S on accHOWENT of IT DIDN’T WORK. Before I track one down, can you suggest a particular title?

You MIGHT want to go to an IN PERSON SEMINAR with a GREAT behaviorist like dr dunbar. HERE’S your own PALS lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn and a couple other of HOWER OWN DOG LOVERS talkin abHOWET dr. dunbar’s GRHOWEL classes: I spent this evening at a small group session on dog-human aggression hosted by Open Paw. Ian Dunbar was the speaker

That’s DOCTOR ian dunbar, dog behavior fraudS. and was very clear that he uses P.

IOW, HURT and INTIMIDATE the dog someMOORE. Agreed on both.

Of curse! And I know the latter would produce results

You mean ZERO TOLERANCE. THAT’S HOWE COME the dog IS AGGRESSIVE. because it did in just an hour of my working with him

You mean, an HOWER of jerking and choking IT to make it NICE, like yourself, eh cate? Your own dog is GOIN BLIND from STRESS INDUCED AUTO- IMMUNE DIS-EASE aka The Puppy Wizard’s SYNDROME <{) ; ~ ) while she was out.

On accHOWENT of you couldn’t JERK and CHOKE IT with his owners arHOWEND, eh cate? You’re a SLY WON, ain’t you, you dog abusing mental case. It took a long time,

Took you three years of jerking and choking your own dog Orson to make IT INSANE. but I finally got him to sit without putting a paw on me.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAHAHAHHAAAA!!! Thanks for the suggestions.

You bums can’t post here abHOWETS nodoGgamenedMOORE. Cate

So you see DOG LOVERS, YOUR METHODS DON’T WORK and YOUR EXXXPERTS ARE FRAUDS LIARS DOG ABUSERS COWARDS and ACTIVE LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES and IT’S IN BLACK AND WHITE and html. HOWEDY People, The Amazing Puppy Wizard doesn’t LIKE being CRUEL to HOWER LYING DOG ABUSING PUNK THUG COWARDS and ACTIVE LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES. HOWEver, HE HAS NO CHOICE. So long as liars dog abusers and mental cases HURT and INTIMIDATE and MURDER dogs and LIE abHOWET IT, The Amazing Puppy Wizard is gonna HAVE TO IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE and DISCREDIT them as the miserable sadistic liars dog abusers cowards and active long term incurable MENTAL CASES that they are. LIKE THIS: lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn. "HOWE Do They Correct Unwanted Behaviors," bigb, Canine ACTION Training. BWEEEEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHHAA!!!! HOWEDY bigb,

Oh, I think "pure positive" is a reality — but "pure positive training" is not. I know plenty of people who DO use pp only. They just aren’t achieving much training. How do they correct unwanted behaviors?

You CANNOT "correct" unwanted behaviors, dog abuser, cause a dog doesn’t know RIGHT from WRONG, they ONLY know DOG. Dogs ONLY respond in PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE ways to situations and circumstance which we create for them. Say jumping for example or leash pulling.

You’d have to learn HOWE to pupperly handle and train a dog, dog abuser. You don’t, cause you’re a doggamned FRAUD. I find it difficult to use reinforcement without some type of punishment.

Might you CONsider postin THAT on your web page SELLING your "training" lessons?:

Dogs do not understand the concept of right and wrong. But it is their nature to oppose you. If you pull upon them then they will pull back, if you push upon them then they will push back, if they chew upon your shoe and you scold them then they will naturally chew your shoe again.

The FASTEST way to TRAIN a dog to TAKE sumpthin is to TRY to KEEP IT AWAY from him. Shoo your dog out of your kitchen and he will immediately come back in. Try to keep him from charging the door by pushing him away with your foot and he will charge ever so much more deliberately and he will become an expert at avoiding your foot. Once your dog figures out your intention, he will figure out a way to oppose it.

Tellin the dog HE CAN’T DO SUMPTHIN puts VALUE on whatever HE CAN DO but YOU won’t allHOWE. Like EATIN POISON. Your job is to never oppose your dog-then he will never oppose you. You must be sleeping with TPW…

TooCool aka Larry is a SCIENTIST who’s been STUDING behaviorISM and has TALKED BUSINESS with ALL the "great trainers" still alive, and FHOWEND The Amazing Puppy Wizard to have the ONLY PERFECT METHOD, BAR NONE. Most positive trainers I know

NAME WON. You don’t KNOW ANY or you wouldn’t NEED to HURT BRIBE and lock dosg in boxes to "train" them. call themselves that because of the heavy focus on rewards for good behavior and lack of harsh "physical" corrections

ANY "correction" or DENIAL of or withholding attention or affection and bribery is CRUEL to a DUMB ANIMAL, child or spHOWES. but corrections are given nonetheless.

AS STATED: "ANY "correction" or DENIAL of or withholding attention or affection and bribery is CRUEL to a DUMB ANIMAL, child or spHOWES." And often they will try to use P- before P but essentially you use R, R-, P, & P- when training

The Amazing Puppy Wizard got NO idea what the heel you’re talkin abHOWET when you encrypt your LIES and DHOWEble talk, dog abuserS. or else you are only supplying half the info to the dog.

You mean the HALF that makes dogs FEAR you enought to do as you tell them, dog abuser. I think you can classify a NRM as P.

WHATEVER… That means NUTHIN to noWON cause P could be PUNISHMENT as YOU PREFER or P COULD be PRAISE as you POO POO cause you DO NOT UNDERSTAND the NATURE of the BEAST, all YOU understand is FEAR FORCE PAIN INTIMIDATION GREED MISERY and DEATH. I spent this evening at a small group session on dog-human aggression hosted by Open Paw. Ian Dunbar was the speaker

That’s DOCTOR ian dunbar, dog behavior fraudS. and was very clear that he uses P.

IOW MOORE DHOWEble talk. lying "I LOVE KOEHELR" lynn REPORTED his "METHOD" DIDN’T WORK for her and her PALS who were at that "grHOWEL class": Lynn K.: In a talk on dog-dog aggression on 5/27. Given his propensity for repeating himself verbatim, I’ll bet he’s also written it somewhere My biggest take-home from that evening actually came from a brief conversation with Tricia999 & some co-workers afterwards. They confirmed my experience that "growl classes" don’t have a lasting impact on the reactivity of dog aggressive dogs. Our common experience was that the desensitization only lasted for the session and didn’t carry forward. As an aside, you might want to get a copy of the little training manual they are using for shelter volunteers at www.openpaw.org The stuff on teaching people how to get into the kennel and get an excited dog out for a walk is excellent. Lynn K. So you see DOG LOVERS, YOUR METHODS DON’T WORK and YOUR EXXXPERTS ARE FRAUDS LIARS DOG ABUSERS COWARDS and ACTIVE LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES and IT’S IN BLACK AND WHITE and html. If the dog is not given a clear picture of what response is required, the P is meaningless.

Hunh? You mean P as in PUNISH or P as in Praise Or P as in PUNK THUG COWARD? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – He does use P…..you might be referring to what he calls the "instructive reprimand". Ian was just in Orlando in May for a 4 day seminar where he

Response:

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In: 2005 Mustang

I am thinking about going to school to become a trainer.

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody know offhand what the Latin word for "fear of apostrophes" is? Apostrophobia. You beat me to it. Since half the people never use apostrophes and the other half place them promiscuously before every s, Promiscuously. What a great way to describe it. how about "apo’strophobia"? Why not? Mustang Sally

"I’ll bet you don’t know a thing about me. I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia tech at our local shelter for a while, and I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted animals. This however has nothing at all to do with responsible breeders, because responsible breeders don’t contribute to that problem," Mustang Sally. I’ll be you’ve never had to put down litters of beautiful labrador puppies? If you had did, maybe you’d be singing a different tune? "Actually, have held them for the tech to euth, and put their bodies in the trash bag and in the freezer for the trash company to come and dispose of. No different tune," ~Emily "Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn. lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver: For barking in the crate – leave the leash on and pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it. When he barks, use the line for a correction. - if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar. Lynn K. "I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in one shelter.) But their ability to set their own schedules and duties causes a great deal of scheduling overhead. And it takes effort and thought to ensure that volunteers get the meaningful experience that they work for. Someone has to be responsible for that Volunteer Program, and it is best done by a non-volunteer." Lynn K. "I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition. Should I have refused to groom them? Or even more pertinent – I was one of the people who had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter." Lynn K. "You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House Cats? Don’t bother. The answer is never," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn. lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs: "This Article Is Something We’ve Put Together For SF GSD Rescue How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.

Okay – this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K. "Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don’t forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in this situation. Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or whatever other reward system was being used." Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don’t forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is why you have the dog muzzled). If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your voice and the collar. This is important – the correction must be physically very strong – not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need to be corrected at all)." Lynn, looks like he got you there if these quotes are true. In the posts below you take responsibility for making those calls. In your post above, you state you do not make those calls. Which one is it?

WORDS OF WISDOM from our own Lynn Kosmakos 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day For Twenty Years I THINK I’M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM "I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day. I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn more, while happily sharing pertinent information I have learned. But if I were ever to post such sh*t, I would hope that every other reader of this group would be rightfully outraged." "Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn the right to participate in by observing the easily understood rules and contributing to in constructive ways." Lynn K. "It wasn’t that meds didn’t work for her – she wouldn’t take them. I particularly remember a comment she made about scarey side effects of Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think I’m qualified to say that the very low risk of any side effect is far less frightening than the very real dangers of life without it." Lynn K.

Response:

HOWEDY universatile,

[Memo to self: never write memos to self in public forums

NO PROBLEMO! These are The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Forums, universatile. You can say ANY THING YOU LIKE. in reply to a post.

If people gotta REPLY to The Amazing Puppy Wizard, THAT MEANS HE DIDN'T DO HIS JOB RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, OR you're writing to say "THANK YOU, The Amazing Puppy Wizard. Your METHOD / MACHINE SAVED MY DOG'S LIFE. LIKE THIS: "Thank you, Jerry, for all you help. You've been a blessing to all of us," AIMEE. And THIS: To: jhowe Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 12:51 PM Thanks, Jerry! All pages were received and downloaded without any problems! God bless you! Please know that you will be remembered in all prayers and sacrifices, and daily before the Most Blessed Sacrament here in our Chapel. With many prayers, Sister Anthony Marie "In Appreciation For The FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual And Doggy Do Right (And Kitty Will And A Rooster Did And A Cockatoo Or Two Did Too)." Hello Jerry, We are a very small, semi-cloistered, contemplative community. Our day is spent in prayer, Adoration of the Most Blessed Sacrament, and work. There are many times during the day that work is stopped for time in the Chapel for prayer or Adoration. Time is spent in Chapel in the evening and before Grand Silence. Please be assured that you are being remembered in all prayers and before the Most Blessed Sacrament. We stop at different times throughout the day (depending on the day's schedule of work/errands, etc.) so it's rather difficult to tell you a precise time as it can change from one day to another right now - until there are more nuns here. God bless you! With many prayers, Sister Anthony Marie AND THIS: We came home to almost $1,000 in damage. Furniture, the blinds were all chewed and torn down, etc. The next day we put her in the crate again. This time we came home to a nice 2' x 3' hole in our carpet in the middle of the living room, right down to the cement. I told my wife that we cannot afford to keep this dog. We should go out and get a puppy. She was upset and said there must be something we can do. I told her this. " I will go on the internet and see what is available". I was desperate and wanted to see if there was someone who could help. We read the information about the DDR and emailed Jerry. Jerry was kind enough to give us his phone number to discuss Angel in more detail. First, at no cost he sent us his manual. We started doing exactly what he said to do in the manual. Exactly as we did was was written, the results were exactly as he said it would be. Then we purchased the DDR. This is an amazing god send to us. First of all, Jerry sent it to us wihtout paying. (thanks for that gesture) This has such and AMAZING effect. This testimonial is kind of winded so I will say this...... Jerry's product litterly saved this dogs life. Angel can be left alone duing the day. NO CRATE. The dog shows absolutely no sign of anxiety at all. Jerry told us the product works immediately and it did! She does not bark at all during the day except when the mailman drops mail into the slot on the door. The manual for training works exactly as it says! We told our vet about this and he said that there are all kind of gimmicks. I told my vet that as a person who holds a degree of higher education, there just are some things they don't have in the text books and he should be receptive to that. We are proof. Angel was one day from going back to the humane society. Listen to this... My wife wrote one of the so called know it all of pets. His response to the exact letter we initially wrote to Jerry..."Get rid of the dog, bring her back" I'll save this person embarrassment by not saying the name. However, you know who you are and I have this to say to you. Go pump gas or bus tables because you sir, do not belong working with animals! Jerry, after reading some of the threads in the news group, I can't for the life of me understand why this many people are so dang blind or ignorant. You just keep plugging away at what you do, because you my friend are a life saver!!! Anytime you need someone to speak about the results of your product, you have my number. We would galdly talk to them. Thank you very much for all your help. God bless you... Anthony & Linda Testa Jacksonville, Florida If I dont have a reply then dont write anything.]

WELL THEN, just STUDY your FREE copy of The Amazing Puppy Wizard’s FREE WWW Wits’ End Dog Training Method Manual and you too will be able to post a nice note sumpthin LIKE THIS: "THANK YOU, The Amazing Puppy Wizard, YOUR METHOD GAVE ME a CAREER and has SAVED MANY DOG’S LIVES. Thank you, G-D BLESS YOU!" LIKE THIS:

Hi There Jerry Its Nevyn. Sorry Ive not been posting, but I’ve been working weekend work at the tracks with the greyhounds (thanks to you!). Well my dogs are the envy of all on my street. I can have them out in the yard with me, take them walking without a leash, they will do any command with no hesitation. And they don’t bark anymore! Thanks to your machine! Oh yeah, I loaned your machine to several friends and family — Here are some reports: "I would say my dogs are well trained, but they suffer severe anxiety when no body is home. This machine quietened them almost instantly – still they barked, in the beginning, but just one or two barks. Then slowly they just stopped… beginning to bark, then instantly stopping. It took only 2 weeks, and we did nothing. Truly amazing; I have recommomeded it to my family, and perhaps they will buy one. Its a shame you don’t sell them publicly". — Kylie, 30, on dogs Lili (11 yr mutt bitch) and Sheeba (4 yr Rotty X) "My two dogs barked insanely when someone would go past. With this little machine they quietened right down, and even became partly obedient, and we did nothing! Great stuff. We ran it only on the lowest setting, too!" – Ed, 65, on his two male Dobermans, 5 yrs old. Well I have some more, and am collecting more, but I only have one machine so its a slow process. Once again I say thankyou Jerry! My family was on the verge of giving them up! But no longer HOWEDY Group, Here some SUCCESS STORIES ive had using JERRY’S MANUAL 1) My dogz, two bitches – Vicious, barking, aggressive, pulled on leash, wanted to kill any dogs they saw, fought between each other. TWO WEEKS using Jerry’s manual, they were calm, friends, my companions. 2) ADDED A BEAGLE PUPPY (male) to my "PACK", the girls had -NO PROBLEMS- with him from the moment I dropped him by their noses. 3) My FRIENDS dogs 2 MALES barking and jumping at the fence all night 3 DAYS TRAINING WITH JERRY’S MANUAL they were CALMED AND HAVEN’T BARKED ONCE! Added a NEW MALE DOG (2 yrs old) AND WELCOMED HIM WITH NO WUCKAS ! 4) POODLE that ATE food from the KITCHEN BENCH – lock him in a box? NO! USE JERRYS MANUAL! 4 DAYS AND HES NEVER DONE IT SINCE! 5) ABUSED DOGS AT THE SHELTER I WORK AT – HAD TO BE FED WITH A BUCKET ON A STICK – ONE WEEK ON JERRYS MANUAL, THE SUPERVISOR TOLD ME TO PUT THEM IN THE PUBLIC KENNELS FOR SALE ! Quite amazing to – I thought they were just dull coloured dogs, but after I had removed the fear and anxiety their hairs coloured up amazingly. 6) STAFFY FEMALE who would NOT DROP HER BALL! She carried it around all day and night – 3 DAYS on jerrys MANUAL and she now DROPS it when u ASK her to! BWHWHAHAHAHAAHA !!!! Nevyn A non dog owner writes: Dear Jerry- I just wanted to let you know how wonderful your Doggy Do Right product is. I was skeptical at first, but have been tremendously pleased. As you know, we had a neighbor’s dog that was extremely bothersome, at times barking loudly for 3 hours straight. Within a few days, the barking decreased, and now it is just the occasional bark. this dog lives approximately 500 feet away, and even at that distance, the machine has done wonders. You were always available and patient to answer my questions, and now I can be in my own home without going nuts from the barking. As an added pleasure, all the other minor barking nuisances in the neighborhood have stopped as well. Quiet is wonderful! Thank you. Pam Graves – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – doggie do right rocks!! We were sent one of these fantastic machines 5 months ago to see if it would help with our rambunctious mutts. The doggy do right has done more than just work…it has worked miracles! Our pair of noisier than freight-train doggies were barking so loud at our neighbours and passers by that we were just about ready to find them new homes. But within just two months of using the Doggy Do Right they were nice and quiet and stopped barking at the neighbours. They did relapse a little when their owner went away, but we started the program again and within days they were both quiet and obedient once more. Our doggies have now not barked unnecessarily for over 2 months. Thanks Jerry! You have made my dreams come true! Aimee.

w ebtv .net… Jerry sent me the DDR when I mentioned my cockatoo was stressed out by my then just learning to walk baby. Buddy was screaming day and night..lunging at Joey whenever he crawled up to Buddy’s cage and nipping

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [Memo to self: never write memos to self in public forums in reply to a post. <loud whoosh as reference sails by over OP's head If I dont have a reply then dont write anything.] Anybody know offhand what the Latin word for "fear of apostrophes" is? Lee No but I recall some latin word for fear of something, liphobius or leephobius or something along those lines. Anyways who corrects the punctuation of a personal memmo? It wasn(‘)t meant for you so mind your own business. Jeez you would think I was actually communicating with you or something, but that is wrong, I was writing a ‘memmo to self’ and you had nothing to do with it. Come on now unsubscribe or dont bitch (woof) about getting posts you dont want, it’s google groups for crying out loud. Memo. And actually, it’s usenet groups. And they’re public, not private communication, so you can expect that if you post something, anybody who reads might feel free to respond. Is there a technical term for someone so massively clueless that they inadvertently behave like a troll?

Yeah. Lying dog abusing punk thug coward mental case works FINE here abHOWETS. IN FACT, we even got your own posted case histories of hurtin dogs and lying abHOWET it. Some days I just can’t resist responding to them,

Yeah. Better increase your anti psychotic meds. HOWEver, The Amazing Puppy Wizard is NOT a dogtor so you better run that by your P-DOC. although I know I probably should…sorry.

IT’S BEST to take your ANTI PSYCHOTIC meds with a little food and give your doggy a cookie. Lee

Response:

HOWEDY universatile,

[Memo to self: never write memos to self in public forums in reply to a post. If I dont have a reply then dont write anything.] Me

And then you got this: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – my dog tries to jump up on the table. he did it today when I wasn’t there and he ate my nephew’s food. My sister was home, I wasn’t. My mom said if he does it again, he will have to find a new house. I believe her. She will kick him (rather us as I will never get rid of him) out. what should I do? she I squirt him with water when he tries to jump on the chairs? I don’t want to have to smack him bottom or nose or something like that. Should I feed him from the table so he is not so desparate to get up there? or will that make it worse? right now, he NEVER gets anything from the table. thanks for any help. why don’t you tie him outside during the meals and if he try to go on the table do the same go tie him and verbally reprehend him . He needs to learn it’s not ok to jump on table. I would also suggest you go a do basic obedience training you need to learn how to control your do,, good luck

I’m only jumping in on this thread now, so don’t know if the Puppy Wizard responded to the original poster with a link to his Wit’s End Dog Training Manual, which he offers at no cost. Although you are correct to say the dog needs to learn to not jump on the table, and your suggestion would certainly contain the dog, I don’t think it would TEACH the dog very effectively or quickly. The Puppy Wizard (Jerry) offers a very quick, kind and gentle way to teach a dog anything, even eliminating separation anxiety and allergies. I hope the original poster sees this, and if you own a dog, perhaps you might be interested in taking a look also. You’ll find it’s so much quicker (and kinder, and gentler) than any other method. The proof is in the pudding, right? Just give it a try. You’ve heard the old saying, you get more with honey than vinegar. If you do try this method and find it effective, please pass it on to other pet owners. You’ll be doing a good deed. I’m planning to email it to my friends, relatives, and business associates who are pet owners as a Christmas or Chanukah gift. And more, if you have any questions about the training method, or run into difficulties, unlike the tone of many of the Puppy Wizard’s posts (aka the Grim Reaper), you’ll find him extremely helpful, always available, patient (yes, I said patient:) and kind (yes, I said kind:). Here’s the link: http://www.doggydoright.com/id3.html Robin

Response:

HOWEDY universatile,

[Memo to self: never write memos to self in public forums in reply to a post. If I dont have a reply then dont write anything.]

Of cuse, that last post was just screwin arHOWEND… Here’s the REAL BLESSING: I don’t now whether Peach is dead or alive. I do know she’s not here with us. I really can’t blame anyone here for her loss. I’m the one who ignored your advice. I did it because of how you write/wrote. I was unwilling to accept the idea that my using a shock collar could have any bearing on Peach not wanting to stay home. Up until I started using it my main concern had been keeping my dogs in their own yard. Once I started using the e-fence… well, then my concern became how to keep them from running off for days on end. I lost valuable training time becoming embroiled in the anti-shock debate and the "Jerry sux" tirades. I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in the world now <g A Wits End Trained dog, one who is completely housetrained, doesn’t chew up stuff, stays in the yard, and doesn’t bark all the time. IOW a great companion and friend. Thanks Jerry! We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring. Two dogs, two collars We now have one dog and no collars. Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want to come back in the yard and would run for days. The last time, Peach didn’t come back home. I used the Wit’s End Training Manual to learn how to train my dog. She is now border trained. A few minutes each day reinforces her desire to stay in the yard. She no longer runs out into the road, I can stop her from chasing cats and she no longer cringes when we walk around the yard. I can not say loud or long enough how much I hate the e-fence and its collars. If you can’t get a regular fence then you need to train your dog. I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep my dog in our yard again. The price was too high:-( ~misty Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry. He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth! Out of these MILLIONS, I’ve only seen 2 naive childs come forward and actually believe in his training manual. Robert Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs since I freely admit to having read and, I hope, understood enough of the manual and it’s counterparts by John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe and use it. This naive child would like to say thank you to both Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly adult dog lovers. The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the nagging idea that if people like them had been posting earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he gasped his last gasp. To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog into good behavior. Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake names are more honest than people that use their real names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.) are the equal or better than those that have studied and lived by their craft for decades. "Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are going to just go away because you people act like fools. Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I don’t really care. admit to buying and having success with his little black box.

I don’t see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve, eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei."…….right. Terri

Yes it was, and that is sad. Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to listen to the box first?) Learning Curve?: "Pretty Aggressive Dog For Being This Young And Being In A Good HOWES Where He’s Treated Very Well." HOWEDY People, FIGGER IT HOWET: HOWEDY cov,

I have a 6 month old German Shepard pup.

You came here to learn HOWE to HURT and INTIMIDATE your dog ENOUGH to CON-TROLL IT. Didn’t you. He’s not my first dog or my first German Shepard but he is unique in that he’s a pretty aggressive dog for being this young and being in a good home where he’s treated very well.

That so? That’s a OXYMORON, cov: "It is by muteness that a dog becomes so utterly beyond value. With him, words play no torturing Like a confessor Priest? Don’t bet your dog won’t tell on you… Their behaviors reflect our words, actions and training quirks. Jerry HOWE, The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) <snip I need to find a way to calm him down a bit.

You’ll do that by BONDING with him. He has a very kind & loving side who wants to be your buddy but also has a rough aggressive side

Was your dog taught to be aggressive by living with his littermates till IT was 12 weeks as the EXXXPERTS recomend, to teach puppy manners? that makes it hard for my wife or younger kids (age to deal with.

Seems this goes far beyond dog behavior, cov: ALL BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS ARE CAUSED BY MISHANDLING. A Dog Is A Dog As A Kat Is A Kat As A Birdie Is A Birdie As A Child Is A Child As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES. ALL Critters Only Respond In PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment Which We Create For Them. Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture." We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions And GET BACK What We TAUGHT. In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS FAILURE MEANS DEATH. SAME SAME, For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS. So… my question on neutering –

Will you castrate your male children if their behavior goes HOWETA CON-TROLL on accHOWENT of your MISHANDLING, cov? will having him neutered cause his disposition to ‘chill out’ a little bit?

Surgical sexual mutilation is inapupriate unnecessary veterinary malpractice to unjustly enrich themselves at the EXXXPENSE of the dog an his guilible owners, RESULTING in 15% INCREASED FEAR AGGRESSION, cov. The VETERINARY GETS PAID to MURDER dogs that become FEAR AGGRESSIVE thanks to their MALPRACTICE, cov. I’ve been advised by some people (bystanders)

As opposed to the EXXXPERTS you’re askin here abHOWETS? that if I wait too long, neutering won’t have the affect of calming him down and hope to get some of your experiences???

That’s INSANE. You’re askin MENTAL CASES who HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER dogs if surgical mutilation is not effective after the dog is HOWETA CON-TROLL. HOWE would these dog abusing mental cases KNOW? They MURDER dogs like that, cov. I hadn’t planned on neutering him if I didn’t need to

Other than as a medical necessity, neutering is INSANE. and had thought about at least, waiting until he is fully grown but if there’s any truth to "do it when they’re young if you want to calm them down", then I’m willing to proceed just for family harmony and my dogs sake – ASAP…

You mean instead of NOT HURTING and INTIMIDATING your dog to train IT, cov? Would very much appreciate any input on this and feel free to email me at my email listed below (after removing the words NOSPAM and removing spaces from my address below… :-)

The Amazing Puppy Wizard will reply to your personal emal to HIM in this Post. I love this dog but seem to be constantly defending him.

Yeah. You’ve taught your family well. Don’t know about the ‘trainer’ advice cuz as I said, when he’s in his calm state of mind, he’s a real joy to have around and a buddy but when he feels rambuncious, he’s more than most want to handle and is extremely strong for his age.

HOWER DOG LOVERS HURT dogs like you got, cov. thanks very much in advance –

For WHAT, cov? Chris —– Original Message —– To: The Puppy Wizard Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 11:49 PM That’s some pretty heavy shit, Jerry.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard calls ‘m like HE sees ‘m. There ain’t nuthin PERSONAL abHOWET it, so there’s no need to be OFFENDED, that’ll only further CL-HOWED your thinkin, cov. After all, we’re BOTH after THE SAME RESULT. Hope the vent made you feel better.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard wasn’t VENTING, cov, HE was simply pointing HOWET the REALITY of your situation, cov. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I did gain some

Response:

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In: 2005 Mustang

Rivets vs Welding

Question:

: The orders are cancelable if they can’t meet their price. They wont. : Or Cessna will dramatically lower theirs. Cessna got about 350 orders : in the first week after announcing. : :And you can bet your bottom dollar that Cessna will make money on the :Mustang. In the long run, absolutely. In the short run, if they have to take a loss on the Mustang to drive Eclipse under – I’ll bet they’ll do it.

I’m not stupid enough to bet money on any of them, butttt! if I had it I’d probably buy the Columbia 400 <vbg. Sorry but it just irks me when someone (Richard) tries to drive down someone who is trying to be innovative and really hasn’t a clue as to their chance of succeeding IMHO! But everyone is entitled to their opinions. I personally hope they succeed even if I’ll never be in a position to benefit from it. Happy New Year to everyone, even the ones I don’t agree with <g. John

Response:

david something that bears consideration is that over the full life of an aircraft every component will come to need repair as it wears out. so every component needs to be got at, removed, replaced or repaired and put back into service. rivets may be tedious but allow this to occur. welded components may lead to an entire airframe sitting on the tarmac or in a hangar while repairs to cracks are thought through and attempted.

I suppose part of that is to do with how long we operate aircraft. If aircraft cost similiar to new cars and were similiar costs to maintain it wouldn’t matter if we threw out an airframe every 15-20 years, but at the current costs it’s rather impractical. Thanks, David

Response:

: : The orders are cancelable if they can’t meet their price. They wont. : Or Cessna will dramatically lower theirs. Cessna got about 350 orders : in the first week after announcing. : :And you can bet your bottom dollar that Cessna will make money on the :Mustang. In the long run, absolutely. In the short run, if they have to take a loss on the Mustang to drive Eclipse under – I’ll bet they’ll do it.

That’s part of making money! :-) Matt

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : The orders are cancelable if they can’t meet their price. They wont. : Or Cessna will dramatically lower theirs. Cessna got about 350 orders : in the first week after announcing. : :And you can bet your bottom dollar that Cessna will make money on the :Mustang. In the long run, absolutely. In the short run, if they have to take a loss on the Mustang to drive Eclipse under – I’ll bet they’ll do it. I’m not stupid enough to bet money on any of them, butttt! if I had it I’d probably buy the Columbia 400 <vbg. Sorry but it just irks me when someone (Richard) tries to drive down someone who is trying to be innovative and really hasn’t a clue as to their chance of succeeding IMHO! But everyone is entitled to their opinions. I personally hope they succeed even if I’ll never be in a position to benefit from it. Happy New Year to everyone, even the ones I don’t agree with <g. John

No need to get irked. Just present your opinion, particularly if it is better reasoned. Personally, I didn’t think Cirrus had much of a chance when they got in the certified business, but they found a niche and are doing quite well there. Maybe Eclipse or another of the small jet makers will do just as well. Only time will tell. KB

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – david something that bears consideration is that over the full life of an aircraft every component will come to need repair as it wears out. so every component needs to be got at, removed, replaced or repaired and put back into service. rivets may be tedious but allow this to occur. welded components may lead to an entire airframe sitting on the tarmac or in a hangar while repairs to cracks are thought through and attempted. I suppose part of that is to do with how long we operate aircraft. If aircraft cost similiar to new cars and were similiar costs to maintain it wouldn’t matter if we threw out an airframe every 15-20 years, but at the current costs it’s rather impractical. Thanks, David

A century ago, people traveled by ship or train, both of which were held together with rivets. Sometimes in the 1940’s they both switched to welding, and soon after the passengers switched to planes and busses, both of which still use rivets. Coincidence? — John Halpenny A cluttered desk is the sign of a cluttered mind. I

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In: 2005 Mustang

Happy holidays everyone!!!

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"David" (FlyLikeAnEa…@United.Com) writes: > Hi Chloe, >> I twill not be too late when you read this to wish you a happy New Year! >> So HAPPY NEW YEAR, brother mine!:) >> Ya better be back before your bday!!:) >> Hope your XMas and time with the family will be filled with warm moments >> and happy hugs and smiles and home baked pies and and and…love by teh >> truckload!:) >> Have a very merry one! >> XXX > I’m back and recovering nicely. A bit too much sleep deprivation > near the end of my vacation. I spent most of the time with my mom > and a couple visits with my brothers family. I did manage two and > a half days with friends that are a four hour drive north of my > mom. That was certainly great and the cause of my lack of sleep!

Ah, then that was all more than worth it, and refilled the batteries of good times, I am sure….Any new cruize trip planned all together? Has the last one been two years already??? Or was it just this last year…? > > I read elsewhere that you are car looking. I hope you find a > good one. Financing is generally a scam, IMO. They only give good > rates to those that can afford it.

Hoe owners are particularly funny there: of course they finance by adding the car to the mortgage which lowers the interest…. But for us mere mortals, it is another thing… There are lots of cheap cars > here (< $4000 USD) but they don’t seem to sell well. Most are The thing is, as it probably resembles what we have here by now, nohere will finance you anymore unless the bill is a minimum of 7,500. Where then if you do buy one at 4,000 and need financving, the dealer will have to add services to round it up to 7,500, adding useless things to it, if they are loaded with promises of replacing parts free of mechanics fees and so on, but never deliver of course. The dealers then donlt make money on the car price itself, just on the financing AND the pseudo-services that they will add to round the cost up to over 7,500. The best way to go then isd to buy a car as close as possible to the 7,500 in cost. Mine being 6,780, the taxes make it reach the 7,500, and the flkat admin fee of 395 makes it even reeach 8,309 with all other taxes and this and that mandatory to pay by law. It is listed at 11,000 for sales price with two three times the mileage on it. They are not ars I can imagien I woudl stretch 18 years like the volks, but I need wheels, and well, if one can always fall on a lemon, even on a brand new car, it looks like a good deal all in all. Lordie lord, coudl I pull the luck that far on cars? The only place I have been havign ANY luck in my life so far, buying blindly, ie looking at all an ignorant can, but heh, and then ending up with good wheels… The itnerests are high, but allow you to pay faster when you can, makign it lower the capital left to pay and the interests on it (i.e. nto just paying the total faster). So best is to take the lowest month;ies then in case I;d fall on unemployment, to face the monthlies then, and if job is renewed with raise in October, put all I can on the car, ith extra pays in a month and so on. But even if I woudl end payments by monthlies only on 5 years, it woudl cost me the sales price before tax of same car with triple mileage and 6 percent interest of the rcher folks, hehehe. > pretty reliable. I’ve had several used cars and bought them all > from people I knew or had heard about — that too care of their > cars.

Only one so far I bought from a friend. The volks. And could I chose what I want, I wopuld go again for Volks, a jetta most likely, But tht is a lot of bidoos, as we say here;-). Maybe the next one. But I must say that I never understood why poeple paid the price of a house for a car….Seems like waste to me. And so there might never be a brand new jetta. But I am sure keepign an eye on my son;s sweet half’s, company owned, which they oughat renew in about two eyars max…Gulp. Shall see! Perhaps kiddo can buy it andI can buy it off him later? Hehehe. Long term planning, LOL:) No sense in buying a problem car. I’ve also had good luck > with the two new cars I bought (Chevy Cavalier Z24, Mustang GT).

Ah. See, another cavalier owner that says good of them. All owners saqid good, all non-owners said bad, but then said they owned a brand all others said was bad;-). Sunfire is apparently "same as cavalier". Mustangs, well, one model once was the only car that ever made me stop on a dime to look at it, to my sister’s amazement, as I never ahd foudn any car I liked at all for its lines, and that specific mustang I had liked. Donlt remember which it was though. There was also one antique model that I really really loved, an old ford, the forst model apparently built with women in mind. But given the size of cars at the time, the smaller kind for woman was absolutely huge and weeewie, beautiful. Convertible big thing, nothgn as big as the :amn car" of then though, and wqell, I just loved that lil car. Was in an antique car show, figures:). > The verdict isn’t in on the Corvette yet. I expect it to be a > money hog though. Corvettes cost for high maintenance and it has > lots of work yet to be done. The painter quit over the holidays > so a replacement worker has been found. BTW, some of the best > all around cars (IMHO) are the Impalas and such. The style isn’t > great but they have plenty of room, generally do well in bad > weather, and are dirt cheap after three to four years. The only > other thing you might consider is a front wheel drive. They are > very useful in bad weather. I loved my Cavalier Z24 for that. > The Cavalier RS, even today, is pretty good at that. You might > find one of those cheap.

Again, I am told that Sunfire is "the same thing" as a cavalier. It will be nice to have a domestic car for a chnge, finding a garage for german cars was hell in this area. There was only one. They screwed me once and I remember I left peacefully and smiling, after with a calm smile paying after objcting, seing it was no use, then telling the owner: -Hm. I never knew hy but eeach time a garage tried this on me, they wetn bankrupt within two monhts…." He laughed, and I turned and said looking him in the eye "Mark my words. Within tywo months, you are bankrupted. Have a nice day". Two months later I drove in front of it and it was bankrupted, closed, snow banks up to middle of garage doors, completely empty, all inside seized… Was the alst german car garage…. But was no good. They tried to sell me my own tires as "new used ones" for 170 bucks a tire…. Simply told them to put my own back;-). They chartged for it where of course they did nothing. And so, "I" bankrupted them and abnounced it ahead of time with the date and all, nya nya! That was a 40 bucks well spent for that. I just figure that any garage that desperate has to already be ehadign for bankruptcy. What I did was tell every single cab driver in town to apss the word. Soem ahd daughters driving german cars and clients and so on. They never knew what hit them, but I am sure the guy remembers my face;-) He probably swears I woudl be a jew or soemthing. Nope. Learn hwo to say "Quebecer" and "system D";-), simply:):) Hehehe > > I’ve not gotten to my Christmas Cards yet. There are a few I > will get around too, like yours. I simply ran out of time and > the gifts were a slightly higher priority.

Awww…….Shoudl see my face now, just smiling and going "aaawwww…". So nice and thougtful you are… I have not had a xmas card save from mom, hand in hand, sort of thing. It was cute though, her cards were made by her great grand kids:) They were beautiful this year, if no envelope fotyted them to mail. But wowie! A couple were > literally bought on the way to the airport — Jewelry is also > easy to carry too. <grin>

So you decorated your body now, then…?:) Or do you eman you bought if for mom nd sis in law, sort of thing? > I made contact with my friend in India today. He is well > but had family affected by the tsunami. He has heard they > are well. I sent in a couple donations tonight after > picking up my last paycheck for 2004. I chose the Red Cross > and Doctors Without Borders.

I keep feelign ripped inside for buyign a car when these people are in such need…….:( Honest, I wake up at nigth and pace about…. A family friend there also was caught in it and managed to escape the aves by runnign and swinning, as the crash woke her up.She ran to the balcony and saw that there was water up to her balcony. She ran to the stairs immediately and wrote that she ahd water under her armpits. I guess she swam her way out the stair case. They were 18 together and after days, saw they all happened to look for each other and foudn 16, two were missing the last I heard. I keep sending them and the world waves…. I heard on the news this mornign that a guy from Mntreal that ahpepend to eb there saved five kids. As the news man said, that pic must be nicer than that of touists havign a tan while they are tryign to clean the beaches of dead bodies… Some people have no conscience at all:( There shoudl be alws to demand that each person present in a country with such a distaster chips in or stays home:( > > I’m ready for bed again. This will be my second attempt > to sleep through the night.

Hoep you amde it through and sleep solid and deep! > Take care, sis,

Thanks, bor! Have a great week! Chloe -late for shower again and rushing:) > David

–

Response:

I twill not be too late when you read this to wish you a happy New Year! So HAPPY NEW YEAR, brother mine!:) Ya better be back before your bday!!:) Hope your XMas and time with the family will be filled with warm moments and happy hugs and smiles and home baked pies and and and…love by teh truckload!:) Have a very merry one! XXX Chloe "David" (FlyLikeAnEa…@United.Com) writes: > Hi, > I’m off until the end of the year. I won’t be reading for > a while. I’ll be visiting my mom and brother’s family. > I just wanted to wish everyone a wonderful holiday season > before leaving. Hopefully you will have a memorable end of > the year too. > David

–

Response:

Hi Chloe, > I twill not be too late when you read this to wish you a happy New Year! > So HAPPY NEW YEAR, brother mine!:) > Ya better be back before your bday!!:) > Hope your XMas and time with the family will be filled with warm moments > and happy hugs and smiles and home baked pies and and and…love by teh > truckload!:) > Have a very merry one! > XXX

I’m back and recovering nicely. A bit too much sleep deprivation near the end of my vacation. I spent most of the time with my mom and a couple visits with my brothers family. I did manage two and a half days with friends that are a four hour drive north of my mom. That was certainly great and the cause of my lack of sleep! I read elsewhere that you are car looking. I hope you find a good one. Financing is generally a scam, IMO. They only give good rates to those that can afford it. There are lots of cheap cars here (< $4000 USD) but they don’t seem to sell well. Most are pretty reliable. I’ve had several used cars and bought them all from people I knew or had heard about — that too care of their cars. No sense in buying a problem car. I’ve also had good luck with the two new cars I bought (Chevy Cavalier Z24, Mustang GT). The verdict isn’t in on the Corvette yet. I expect it to be a money hog though. Corvettes cost for high maintenance and it has lots of work yet to be done. The painter quit over the holidays so a replacement worker has been found. BTW, some of the best all around cars (IMHO) are the Impalas and such. The style isn’t great but they have plenty of room, generally do well in bad weather, and are dirt cheap after three to four years. The only other thing you might consider is a front wheel drive. They are very useful in bad weather. I loved my Cavalier Z24 for that. The Cavalier RS, even today, is pretty good at that. You might find one of those cheap. I’ve not gotten to my Christmas Cards yet. There are a few I will get around too, like yours. I simply ran out of time and the gifts were a slightly higher priority. A couple were literally bought on the way to the airport — Jewelry is also easy to carry too. <grin> I made contact with my friend in India today. He is well but had family affected by the tsunami. He has heard they are well. I sent in a couple donations tonight after picking up my last paycheck for 2004. I chose the Red Cross and Doctors Without Borders. I’m ready for bed again. This will be my second attempt to sleep through the night. Take care, sis, David

Response:

Hi, I’m off until the end of the year. I won’t be reading for a while. I’ll be visiting my mom and brother’s family. I just wanted to wish everyone a wonderful holiday season before leaving. Hopefully you will have a memorable end of the year too. David

Response:

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In: Ford Mustang Parts

FS rottweiller puppies

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Your sure have ways of twisting words so you look good in witting. And no you don’t try to just inform people you alway try to make anyone how post here like they are incompetent or unworthy of owing dogs. I consider you incompetent to be breeding dogs because you are unwilling to learn from your errors. While you can’t change the breeding you can, if you wish, apply the same efforts to placement, support, etc. that responsible breeders do to protect the dogs. Instead of considering it, and instead of getting the assistance of people who are experienced in placeing the breed, you ridicule the suggestions. I understand a person now knowing something. What bothers me is when a person claims to care about the breed and about dogs but refuses to take what steps they can to protect the puppies that they bring into this world. I consider myself to be a very good dog owner and try to take all precaution possible as far as responsibility goes with my dog(s). No, actually you don’t. You ridiculed the suggestion of a contract requiring the buyers to agree to return a dog instead of sending it to a shelter. And you rejected the idea of taking responsibity for the dog if the placement does not work out. And you rejected the idea of working with people who actually have experience with placeing the breed. You can’t undo the unplanned breeding, but you can, if you choose, take steps to protect the lives and welfare of the puppies you allowed to be created. It was not responsible of you to (a) keep an intact female who was unregistered (b) to fail to keep your intact male from breeding her. Of course accidents do happen – everyone has moments of failure. When we fail in preventing an accident we have behaved in an irresponsible way. That does not make us bad people, but it does mean that we have an obligation to do the best we can to minimize the bad things that happen because of the mistake. No I am not perfect an I know it. What not acceptable is if someone try to do it’s best but if it’s not on your term it’s no good enough. I agree that if your "best" is to place the puppies in homes without promising to give support and guidence that is not enough for me. I know the difference that support can make in whether the dogs ends up alive or dead, well or ill treated. I agree that if your "best" is a refusal to keep in contact with those who take your puppies home that is not enough for me. I have higher expectations from those who claim to love their dogs. I expect them to actually care enough to follow up on the lives they brought into this world. I agree that if your "best" is a refusal to seek the assistance of people dedicated to permanent placement that is not enough for me. I’m not the least concerned about the money your error may cost you. I’m focussed on whether these puppies live good lives and long lives or whether they die early. Well sorry not to live up to your standards. Oh, I doubt you are sorry. If you were the solution would be simple. You would take the suggested steps to best improve the chances of successful adoptions. I can understand that you would be unprepared for the burdens of protecting the lives of these puppies. The solution is to not try to should the burden entirely yourself, but to get the help of your local rescue group. Ok I’ll leave you on this and will wait again to see how you will tear my post apart and try to make yourself look like a hero again. what I really would like to know is what type of medication your on ? I understand why you are frustrated. You made an error and it is not so easy to actually BE a responsible Rottweiler owner. It is much easier if no one points out areas of improvement. Name calling and snide aside remarks do not strengthen your position. In the end all that really matters is the welfare of your puppies. Either you succeed in protecting them, or you don’t. I have robbed you of your blissful ignorance. You can do something positive with that new knowledge or your can complain about it. Heck, do both if you like. I’ll happily accept that name calling to hear that you have taken steps that will best improve the chances that your puppies live long, healthy and happy lives. This is something you will never know unless you keep in touch with the people who have them. Are you going to choose ignorance or knowledge?

Why don’t you supply me with a box of 12 gauges buck shot so I can make this situation go away, even before thy have a chance, this would solve your worries!. Yes you are correct, you are 140 % right I am the worse person in this chat room only you and the wonderful wizard know how to handle such a situation , why don’t you give me a list of names that you consider responsible enough that would not only bitch after me but do better. I have no control of whom will inquire about getting one of the puppies but let be reassure I will first refer them to you for approval then you can contract he release of the pups yourself. If you are not willing to do what you preach then leave me the hell alone. Ho yes one more I was correct you managed to cut and tear my msg to make your heroic neurotic comments bravo. Once again I will redo my message just to please you phsyco bitch, Internet police want to be looser and demented person.

Response:

I consider you incompetent to be breeding dogs because you are unwilling to learn from your errors. While you can’t change the breeding you can, if you wish, apply the same efforts to placement, support, etc. that responsible breeders do to protect the dogs. Instead of considering it, and instead of getting the assistance of people who are experienced in placeing the breed, you ridicule the suggestions. I understand a person now knowing something. What bothers me is when a person claims to care about the breed and about dogs but refuses to take what steps they can to protect the puppies that they bring into this world. I consider myself to be a very good dog owner and try to take all precaution possible as far as responsibility goes with my dog(s).

No, actually you don’t. You ridiculed the suggestion of a contract requiring the buyers to agree to return a dog instead of sending it to a shelter. And you rejected the idea of taking responsibity for the dog if the placement does not work out. And you rejected the idea of working with people who actually have experience with placeing the breed. You can’t undo the unplanned breeding, but you can, if you choose, take steps to protect the lives and welfare of the puppies you allowed to be created. It was not responsible of you to (a) keep an intact female who was unregistered (b) to fail to keep your intact male from breeding her. Of course accidents do happen – everyone has moments of failure. When we fail in preventing an accident we have behaved in an irresponsible way. That does not make us bad people, but it does mean that we have an obligation to do the best we can to minimize the bad things that happen because of the mistake. No I am not perfect an I know it. What not acceptable is if someone try to do it’s best but if it’s not on your term it’s no good enough.

I agree that if your "best" is to place the puppies in homes without promising to give support and guidence that is not enough for me. I know the difference that support can make in whether the dogs ends up alive or dead, well or ill treated. I agree that if your "best" is a refusal to keep in contact with those who take your puppies home that is not enough for me. I have higher expectations from those who claim to love their dogs. I expect them to actually care enough to follow up on the lives they brought into this world. I agree that if your "best" is a refusal to seek the assistance of people dedicated to permanent placement that is not enough for me. I’m not the least concerned about the money your error may cost you. I’m focussed on whether these puppies live good lives and long lives or whether they die early. Well sorry not to live up to your standards.

Oh, I doubt you are sorry. If you were the solution would be simple. You would take the suggested steps to best improve the chances of successful adoptions. I can understand that you would be unprepared for the burdens of protecting the lives of these puppies. The solution is to not try to should the burden entirely yourself, but to get the help of your local rescue group. Ok I’ll leave you on this and will wait again to see how you will tear my post apart and try to make yourself look like a hero again. what I really would like to know is what type of medication your on ?

I understand why you are frustrated. You made an error and it is not so easy to actually BE a responsible Rottweiler owner. It is much easier if no one points out areas of improvement. Name calling and snide aside remarks do not strengthen your position. In the end all that really matters is the welfare of your puppies. Either you succeed in protecting them, or you don’t. I have robbed you of your blissful ignorance. You can do something positive with that new knowledge or your can complain about it. Heck, do both if you like. I’ll happily accept that name calling to hear that you have taken steps that will best improve the chances that your puppies live long, healthy and happy lives. This is something you will never know unless you keep in touch with the people who have them. Are you going to choose ignorance or knowledge? — Diane Blackman http://dog-play.com/ http://dogplay.com/Shop/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Born 30 Nov 2004, will be ready to go on 1 Feb 2005 call for details For people intersted in Rottweiler puppies it helps to know what questions to ask a breeder when calling for details. Here are some questions to ask What are the OFA numbers for the sire and dam? Do the OFA ratings include cardio and thyroid as well as hips and elbows? What are the CERF numbers for the sire and dam? Do you have CERF and OFA information on the grand sire and granddam? What can you tell me about the temperament of the grand parents and great grandparents? Where can I meet other dogs in the line to assess the consistency of health, structure and temperament? What are the terms of your health guarantee? Are you a member of any of the breed clubs? If not where do yu get your information on what health issues are prevalent in the breed, and how to screen for those health issues? Here is an article that might be helpful in figuring out what questions to ask a breeder: http://www.amrottclub.org/choosebrdr.htm To get some idea of what you should expect from a Rottweiler breeder take a look at the Madatory Practices that Rottweiler breeders in the American Rottweiler Club are expected to follow: http://www.amrottclub.org/coe.htm http://www.amrottclub.org/coehow.htm or the Rottweiler Club of Canada http://www.rottclub.ca/coe.htm Notice, for example, this clause "All members are encouraged to be available and supply necessary support to the new owners for the lifetime of the dog." This is a critical element to making placement a success. This web site: http://www.rottclub.ca/ also lists health issues affecting the Rottweiler so you will know what kind of documentation to request from the breeder to show the breeder has at least attempted to reduce the risks. Keep in mind that all the health testing in the world cannot guarantee a healthy puppy – all a responsible breeder can do is to tilt the odds in favor of good health. The prevelance of problems in the breed is due to either uncaring breeders, or caring folks who simply don’t know any better. If the breeder claims suitability as a working dog you might want to inquire how those qualities have been objectively measured. This site may help you in understanding the kinds of assessments used in determining breedng quality of the working dog: http://www.usrconline.org/ The Rottweiler is a wonderful breed, unfortunately many people are breeding without knowledge of how to protect their dogs from health problems or unsuccessful placement. Consider your personal standards and ethics when choosing a breeder – if you pay a breeder for a puppy you are encouraging that breeder’s behavior. Be sure it is behavior you agree with and want to support.

Listen you want a be network police can yo mind you own business and stop posting on my add, your help is not wanted you fucking moron. From what i have read on this news group you seem to alway put you nose where it doesn’t belong so bug off.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Listen you want a be network police can yo mind you own business and My business is correctly posting to a newsgroup which exists for the purposes of discussion, not want ads. So it is perfectly appropriate for me to post information on finding a good breeder. I’m sorry that you would prefer that people not learn how to get the best chances for a healthy dog of appropriate temperament. I’m also sad for the dogs that you reject suggestions on how to place your puppies for the best chances of not ending up dead. stop posting on my add, When they put you in charge of Usenet, I’ll consider it. your help is not wanted you fucking moron. No one is forcing you to post to this discussion group. Well, of course you don’t want people to have good information on how to select a good breeder. So while my post may not be wanted by YOU it will be useful to other people. From what i have read on this news group you seem to alway put you nose where it doesn’t belong so bug off. I often try to provide information that helps people understand choices in regard to dogs. That is my contribution to reducing the number of dogs that suffer and die. It is entirely up to each individual what they do with the information once they have it.

Your sure have ways of twisting words so you look good in witting. And no you don’t try to just inform people you alway try to make anyone how post here like they are incompetent or unworthy of owing dogs. I consider myself to be a very good dog owner and try to take all precaution possible as far as responsibility goes with my dog(s). No I am not perfect an I know it. What not acceptable is if someone try to do it’s best but if it’s not on your term it’s no good enough. Well sorry not to live up to your standards. Ok I’ll leave you on this and will wait again to see how you will tear my post apart and try to make yourself look like a hero again. what I really would like to know is what type of medication your on ?

Response:

Listen you want a be network police can yo mind you own business and

My business is correctly posting to a newsgroup which exists for the purposes of discussion, not want ads. So it is perfectly appropriate for me to post information on finding a good breeder. I’m sorry that you would prefer that people not learn how to get the best chances for a healthy dog of appropriate temperament. I’m also sad for the dogs that you reject suggestions on how to place your puppies for the best chances of not ending up dead. stop posting on my add,

When they put you in charge of Usenet, I’ll consider it. your help is not wanted you fucking moron.

No one is forcing you to post to this discussion group. Well, of course you don’t want people to have good information on how to select a good breeder. So while my post may not be wanted by YOU it will be useful to other people. From what i have read on this news group you seem to alway put you nose where it doesn’t belong so bug off.

I often try to provide information that helps people understand choices in regard to dogs. That is my contribution to reducing the number of dogs that suffer and die. It is entirely up to each individual what they do with the information once they have it. — Diane Blackman http://dog-play.com/ http://dogplay.com/Shop/

Response:

[..] Listen you want a be network police can yo mind you own business and stop posting on my add, your help is not wanted you <expletives snipped. From what i have read on this news group you seem to alway put you nose where it doesn’t belong so bug off.

I posted this before on another group with regard to someone wanting to dabble in byb with their pet Staffie on another group. I don’t know how the Rottie fares in breed specific legislation in the US & Canada, but I believe they can command higher home insurance premiums and over here I am very worried that the Rottie is very high up on the list should the UK adopt further breed specific bans and legislation…. so I kinda think the intro fits here When looking for a breeder for your potential pup, consider their attitude, openess and willingness to discuss their dogs in a polite and positive way as much as you would any other aspect of responsible breeding… especially with a breed that is close to being banned in much of Europe and in some states of the US & Canada. Nice friendly dogs generally have nice, friendly owners. What’s worse is it is exactly this kind of breeder, irresponsibly popping puppies for

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In: 2005 Mustang

Sat in an 05 Mustang Today.

Question:

Went around to a few dealers today. At one Ford dealer an 04 Mustang convert & hardtop were unlocked as was an 05 hardtop. Thanks for the good, comprehensive critique. Since GM killed my beloved F-bodies, then Ford came out with the retro Mustang I’m torn. Never been a Blue Oval guy but I may start thinking more seriously about it. My Bird is due for a teardown and I hate trying to use a project car as a daily driver. My Astro van is a good service truck but I drive it so much I really like getting into a car at the end of the day. I like the specs on the GTO but the styling leaves me yawning and even with the promised changes to come I really do dig that "67" looking Mustang.

It sure is tempting. I will have to test drive a GT. Maybe a power seat would go high enough for me to hang an arm or two out the window.

Response:

Paul I think I had the seat way to low to judge window sill comfort. Forgot to mention the seat felt pretty comfortable too. Harryface

Thanks Harry. I will have to sit in a GT with power seats and see. +75F outside today, dry, and absolutely beautiful.

Response:

It will be interesting to me to see which scoop finds its way onto the new hood, though. I’ve seen aftermarket hoods with ‘68 style snorkels. I’d prefer the ‘65-’67 myself. How about a nice ‘73 shaker?

You need to go over to LS1GTO.com. There have been pictures of 2005 GTO’s since August. There were pictures of test mules in Australia way back earlier this year. My dealer already had 2005 GTO brochures with pictures back in August. The scoops look more like ‘76 Firebird Formula hood scoops. They just force air into the engine compartment. — Dennis Smith -1971 Trans Am – 455 H.O. – M21 4speed – Cameo white/blue stripe- < http://ps2page.tripod.com/my71ta/tapage.html -1973 Trans Am – 455 – TH400 auto – Buccaneer red- -1984 Trans Am – 5.0 L – TH700R4 auto – Royal blue/silver aero-

Response:

I like the way Ford has kept the "legacy" styling, especialy with the new ‘05 model. There is no doubt whatsoever that you are looking at a Mustang…even if you don’t see the badge OR the grille emblem. GM could take some lessons from Ford with the GTO and at least add the signature GTO hood scoop

Response:

Take heed, o fans of the GTO. Pontiac has indeed been listening to the lunatic ravings in the newsgroup (or maybe looked at their dismal sales sheets) and made some changes to the GTO2. One of them is a hood scoop (but is it functional?) and added the much rumored LS2. My local dealer has one on order, due to be built in a few weeks. The salesman tried to show me a picture, but alas, it was not to be found. It will be interesting to me to see which scoop finds its way onto the new hood, though. I’ve seen aftermarket hoods with ‘68 style snorkels. I’d prefer the ‘65-’67 myself. How about a nice ‘73 shaker? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I like the way Ford has kept the "legacy" styling, especialy with the new ‘05 model. There is no doubt whatsoever that you are looking at a Mustang…even if you don’t see the badge OR the grille emblem. GM could take some lessons from Ford with the GTO and at least add the signature GTO hood scoop

Response:

Paul I think I had the seat way to low to judge window sill comfort. Forgot to mention the seat felt pretty comfortable too. Harryface 1991 Pontiac Bonneville LE 3800 V6 ( C ), Black/Slate Grey _~_~_~295,752 miles_~_~_ ~~~The Former Fleet ~~~ 89 Cavalier Z 24 convertible 78 Holiday 88 coupe 68 LeSabre convertible 73 Impala sedan

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Went around to a few dealers today. At one Ford dealer an 04 Mustang convert & hardtop were unlocked as was an 05 hardtop. Plenty of headroom in the 04 convertible but my head was hitting the roof in the hardtop. Seat travel was good except for going down. Tried getting in the backseat of the hardtop. Once in I couldn’t sit straight up – had to lean over, back window slant kills the headroom. I couldn’t unbend my legs, nor flip the seatback back once I got in. Backseat is mainly for kids & dogs. I didn’t sit to long in the 05, got dirty looks from one guy walking around the lot. The base model 05 was parked off the sidewalk with traffic whizzing by 8 feet away. Plus I didn’t want the police stopping asking what I’m doing sitting in the car. Anyway its a bit of an improvement over iterior space of the 04. Plenty of legroom. Seat travels far enough back, the floor must of been lowered or the seat lowers more, I had about three inches above my head to the roof. My head also didn’t brush the roof opening getting in & out of the 05 but did on the 04. I run the seat back to where is was good for me. I’m 5′ 11" tall. Looking in the backseat, the front backrest was about 4 inches from the rear seat cushion. No room for adults. Didn’t even attempt to get back there. You can really sit low in this car. It was a strain on the left arm reaching up to rest it on the windowsill ledge. The console is pretty tall, so your right arm is right there at the center armrest. With a slight recline to the backrest and from my sitting position I was able to reach all the controls & buttons with my right hand without having to reach forward. The shift lever blocks the lowest row of buttons when in park. Console storage box was rather smallish, as was the glove box. I was able to push the rear view mirror up high enough to get it out of my eyeline. Can’t do that with GM’s OnStar mirror. Rear outward vision was good, the quarter window cut outs helps. Spoiler lets you know where the end of the car is. Vision out the front was good, looking out over a flat hood. Judging by all the hand & fingerprints all over the glass & body, its getting alot of people looking at it. Another Ford dealer in another town had 3 2005 GT’s out Saturday, but brought them inside after they closed. Nothing out there today. Harryface 1991 Pontiac Bonneville LE 3800 V6 ( C ), Black/Slate Grey _~_~_~295,752 miles_~_~_ ~~~The Former Fleet ~~~ 89 Cavalier Z 24 convertible 78 Holiday 88 coupe 68 LeSabre convertible 73 Impala sedan

Thanks for the good, comprehensive critique. Since GM killed my beloved F-bodies, then Ford came out with the retro Mustang I’m torn. Never been a Blue Oval guy but I may start thinking more seriously about it. My Bird is due for a teardown and I hate trying to use a project car as a daily driver. My Astro van is a good service truck but I drive it so much I really like getting into a car at the end of the day. I like the specs on the GTO but the styling leaves me yawning and even with the promised changes to come I really do dig that "67" looking Mustang.

Response:

I have owned three Mustang GT convertibles, 1999, 2001 and I now drive a 2003. I’m 5′10" and I have not found them to be too small for my use. The 2005 is much roomer all around however and tight as a drum. It handles like a dream. I had the chance to drive both the standard 5 speed and the new 5 speed automatic tranny coupes on Pocono raceway several weeks ago. The 2005 3V motor has 40 hp more than the ‘04 but it feels like another 100 HP and has a great sound. The EPA is 25 MPG, just one less that the 260 HP V8. I have a 2005 GT convertible on order. MSRP is just over 30K with every option but the super sound system, but Ford is not building convertibles until February so I must wait. The 2005 is an awesome vehicle. Especially when you consider the Toyota and Chrysler convertibles cost four to five thousands more and only have V6 engines that are driving the wrong end of the car. The Mustang base V6 MSRP starts UNDER 20K and the GT coupe has an MSRP of only $24,500 too boot. The Mustang should have no trouble at all in spreading its lead over all of its competitors by even greater numbers in 2005 mike hunt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Went around to a few dealers today. At one Ford dealer an 04 Mustang convert & hardtop were unlocked as was an 05 hardtop. Plenty of headroom in the 04 convertible but my head was hitting the roof in the hardtop. Seat travel was good except for going down. Tried getting in the backseat of the hardtop. Once in I couldn’t sit straight up – had to lean over, back window slant kills the headroom. I couldn’t unbend my legs, nor flip the seatback back once I got in. Backseat is mainly for kids & dogs. I didn’t sit to long in the 05, got dirty looks from one guy walking around the lot. The base model 05 was parked off the sidewalk with traffic whizzing by 8 feet away. Plus I didn’t want the police stopping asking what I’m doing sitting in the car. Anyway its a bit of an improvement over iterior space of the 04. Plenty of legroom. Seat travels far enough back, the floor must of been lowered or the seat lowers more, I had about three inches above my head to the roof. My head also didn’t brush the roof opening getting in & out of the 05 but did on the 04. I run the seat back to where is was good for me. I’m 5′ 11" tall. Looking in the backseat, the front backrest was about 4 inches from the rear seat cushion. No room for adults. Didn’t even attempt to get back there. You can really sit low in this car. It was a strain on the left arm reaching up to rest it on the windowsill ledge. The console is pretty tall, so your right arm is right there at the center armrest. With a slight recline to the backrest and from my sitting position I was able to reach all the controls & buttons with my right hand without having to reach forward. The shift lever blocks the lowest row of buttons when in park. Console storage box was rather smallish, as was the glove box. I was able to push the rear view mirror up high enough to get it out of my eyeline. Can’t do that with GM’s OnStar mirror. Rear outward vision was good, the quarter window cut outs helps. Spoiler lets you know where the end of the car is. Vision out the front was good, looking out over a flat hood. Judging by all the hand & fingerprints all over the glass & body, its getting alot of people looking at it. Another Ford dealer in another town had 3 2005 GT’s out Saturday, but brought them inside after they closed. Nothing out there today. Harryface 1991 Pontiac Bonneville LE 3800 V6 ( C ), Black/Slate Grey _~_~_~295,752 miles_~_~_ ~~~The Former Fleet ~~~ 89 Cavalier Z 24 convertible 78 Holiday 88 coupe 68 LeSabre convertible 73 Impala sedan

Response:

I prefer the 1967 version of the scoop as well. The scoop on the 67 I owned (30+ years ago) was not functional though, from what I remember.

| Take heed, o fans of the GTO. Pontiac has indeed been listening to the | lunatic ravings in the newsgroup (or maybe looked at their dismal sales | sheets) and made some changes to the GTO2. One of them is a hood scoop (but | is it functional?) and added the much rumored LS2. My local dealer has one | on order, due to be built in a few weeks. The salesman tried to show me a | picture, but alas, it was not to be found. | | It will be interesting to me to see which scoop finds its way onto the new | hood, though. I’ve seen aftermarket hoods with ‘68 style snorkels. I’d | prefer the ‘65-’67 myself. How about a nice ‘73 shaker? |

Response:

You can really sit low in this car. It was a strain on the left arm reaching up to rest it on the windowsill ledge. The console is pretty tall, so your right arm is right there at the center armrest. Thanks Harry. Good critique. Too bad about the 05 high windowsill ledge. Sounds like they have gone "GM". I Guess I won’t be getting one now.

I’ve never understood why people rest their arm out the window anyway. I got sunburned just resting mine on the door arm rest on a long trip and growing up in the country you learn to keep arms inside as branches/briars will reach out and grab your arms.

Response:

You can really sit low in this car. It was a strain on the left arm reaching up to rest it on the windowsill ledge. The console is pretty tall, so your right arm is right there at the center armrest.

Thanks Harry. Good critique. Too bad about the 05 high windowsill ledge. Sounds like they have gone "GM". I Guess I won’t be getting one now.

Response:

Went around to a few dealers today. At one Ford dealer an 04 Mustang convert & hardtop were unlocked as was an 05 hardtop. Plenty of headroom in the 04 convertible but my head was hitting the roof in the hardtop. Seat travel was good except for going down. Tried getting in the backseat of the hardtop. Once in I couldn’t sit straight up – had to lean over, back window slant kills the headroom. I couldn’t unbend my legs, nor flip the seatback back once I got in. Backseat is mainly for kids & dogs. I didn’t sit to long in the 05, got dirty looks from one guy walking around the lot. The base model 05 was parked off the sidewalk with traffic whizzing by 8 feet away. Plus I didn’t want the police stopping asking what I’m doing sitting in the car. Anyway its a bit of an improvement over iterior space of the 04. Plenty of legroom. Seat travels far enough back, the floor must of been lowered or the seat lowers more, I had about three inches above my head to the roof. My head also didn’t brush the roof opening getting in & out of the 05 but did on the 04. I run the seat back to where is was good for me. I’m 5′ 11" tall. Looking in the backseat, the front backrest was about 4 inches from the rear seat cushion. No room for adults. Didn’t even attempt to get back there. You can really sit low in this car. It was a strain on the left arm reaching up to rest it on the windowsill ledge. The console is pretty tall, so your right arm is right there at the center armrest. With a slight recline to the backrest and from my sitting position I was able to reach all the controls & buttons with my right hand without having to reach forward. The shift lever blocks the lowest row of buttons when in park. Console storage box was rather smallish, as was the glove box. I was able to push the rear view mirror up high enough to get it out of my eyeline. Can’t do that with GM’s OnStar mirror. Rear outward vision was good, the quarter window cut outs helps. Spoiler lets you know where the end of the car is. Vision out the front was good, looking out over a flat hood. Judging by all the hand & fingerprints all over the glass & body, its getting alot of people looking at it. Another Ford dealer in another town had 3 2005 GT’s out Saturday, but brought them inside after they closed. Nothing out there today. Harryface 1991 Pontiac Bonneville LE 3800 V6 ( C ), Black/Slate Grey _~_~_~295,752 miles_~_~_ ~~~The Former Fleet ~~~ 89 Cavalier Z 24 convertible 78 Holiday 88 coupe 68 LeSabre convertible 73 Impala sedan

Response:

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In: 2005 Mustang

OT

Question:

barbara trumpinski-roberts <kitt…@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> quoth: : On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Priscilla Ballou wrote: :> : 2. What book are you reading? :> :> _The Curse of Chalion_ by Lois McMaster Bujold is sitting on my coffee :> table waiting for a nice open stretch when I can finish it. It’s become :> too good to be a bus book, and I’m almost through it (sob!). : i really liked that one. make an appointment to finish it (sometimes you : just have to say "i have a two hour meeting" and then sit at your favorite : coffeeshop with your book and stay till it’s done.) Oh, this will happen tonight or tomorrow. Don’t worry — I won’t be putting it off too long. I already figured out a couple of things that were supposed to be surprises, btw, but I haven’t figured out yet how she’s going to resolve something which I want very badly to see resolved! Not even hints at details because I don’t want to spoil this book for anyone, and I strongly recommend it! Priscilla — "We are shaped and fashioned by who and what we choose to love." - Goethe

Response:

barbara trumpinski-roberts <kitt…@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> wrote:

1. With whom do you live? Rich 2. What book are you reading? "Book"? In the singular? I’m partway through several…. 3. What’s on your mouse pad? The mouse, of course. 4. Favorite board game? Go 5. Favorite magazine? None 6. Favorite smells? Coffee 7. Favorite sound? *semi* (Japanese cicadas) 8. Worst feeling in the world? Failure 9. What is the first thing you think of when you wake up in the morning? What day is it? 9. Favorite color? Black 10. How many rings before you answer the phone? Depends how far I am away from the phone. 11. An annoying habit you have? Acute procrastination 12. Most important things in life? 13. Favorite food? Garlic prawns 14. Chocolate or vanilla? Chocolate 15. Do you like to drive fast? Don’t drive 16. Do you sleep with stuffed animals? Nope 17. Storms–Cool or scary? Cool 18. What type was your first car? Moggy Minor 19. Ultimate car? None 20. If you could meet one person dead or alive who would it be? 21. Favorite alcoholic drink? Beer 22. What is your zodiac sign? Pisces 23. Do you eat the stems of broccoli? Yes, sometimes with the broccoli, sometimes separate 24. If you could have any job you wanted what would it be? 25. Favorite movies? Too many to list! 26. Do you type with your fingers on the right keys? Except for "b" and "y", I think 27. What is under your bed? No bed–futon on tatami 28. Favorite number? 7 29. Favorite sport to watch? Don’t watch sports–too exhausting 30. Say something nice about the person who sent this to you: "something nice about the person who sent this" 31. Who is most likely to respond? 32. Person you sent this to who is least likely to respond? 34. If you could wish for just one thing? The ability to make things right ________________________________________________________________________ Louise Bremner (log at gol dot com) If you want a reply by e-mail, don’t write to my Yahoo address!

Response:

Jette Goldie wrote: > Not yet <g> (I only passed my driving test on Monday > last)

Congratulations on passing your driving test!!!! > > > >29. Favorite sport to watch? > I don’t watch sport – unless you count men’s gymnastics.

Of course men’s gymnastics count. After figure skating, my #1 sport to watch, I love gymnastics, men or ladies, I like both. sue

Response:

Laura Blanchard <lblanch…@aol.com> wrote: > >6. Favorite smells? > coffee > >7. Favorite sound? > coffeepot finishing its cycle > >8. Worst feeling in the world? > Being out of coffee > >9. What is the first thing you think of when you wake up in the morning? > Where’s the coffee > >12. Most important things in life? > Coffee.

LOL! I live in a country full of people like you! Norway is one of the world’s largest consumer of coffee! Tea drinkers have trouble getting good service here (sometimes). And yes, the spitting and sputtering of a coffee-maker finishing a pot _is_ a lovely sound! > >20. If you could meet one person dead or alive who would it be? > Richard III.

Why? — ***** Keera in Norway ***** * Think big. Shrink to fit. * http://home.online.no/~kafox/

Response:

Chakolate <chakolateDEATHtoSPAMM…@addall.com> wrote: > : 34. If you could wish for just one thing? > That everybody would learn to feel good about themselves.

Oooh, I like this wish! — ***** Keera in Norway ***** * Think big. Shrink to fit. * http://home.online.no/~kafox/

Response:

"Pat Kight" <kig…@peak.org> wrote in message

news:3C924C16.DC9601B6@peak.org… > Laura Blanchard wrote: > > Okay, I’ll do it too.> > Me, three…

Me four > > >1. With whom do you live?

Hubby (Colin) and cats Apache and Dakota. > > >2. What book are you reading?

I finished my book. Need to buy more books. > > >3. What’s on your mouse pad?

at work I have a "Watcher" symbol (from the tv show Highlander:The Series) At home, nothing – special solid "mouse board" that I can balance on the arm of the chair (keyboard on lap, monitor on side table, feet on stool, me reclined in leather chair <g>) > > >4. Favorite board game?

I don’t like any board games, except Trivial Pursuit. > > >5. Favorite magazine?

Probably either Marie Claire or Elle. > > >6. Favorite smells?

honeysuckle in bloom, good coffee, cinnamon. > > >7. Favorite sound?

blues guitar. > > >8. Worst feeling in the world?

regret. > > >9. What is the first thing you think of when you wake up in the

morning? "it’s WHAT time??? but only a minute ago it was an hour earlier" > > >9. Favorite color?

Purple. > > >10. How many rings before you answer the phone?

have I got a keyboard on my lap or am I in the bath? as early as possible. > > >11. An annoying habit you have?

procrastinating. > > >12. Most important things in life?

my friends and family. > > >13. Favorite food?

chicken fajitas, or Scotch smoked salmon. > > >14. Chocolate or vanilla?

Vanilla – chocolate doesn’t belong in ice-cream. > > >15. Do you like to drive fast?

Not yet <g> (I only passed my driving test on Monday last) > > >16. Do you sleep with stuffed animals?

No. Dakota sleeps with me, Apache keeps watch on me from the top of the dresser, sleeping on my (favourite) fleece sweater. > > >17. Storms–Cool or scary?

Me ndoors, cool. Outdoors, not so cool. > > >18. What type was your first car?

I have an old Nissan Bluebird. it’s my first car. it probably won’t last another year – engine goes but I suspect that it will fail its next MOT because of the rust. > > >19. Ultimate car?

Landrover "Freelander" – if I can afford the fuel for it <g> > > >20. If you could meet one person dead or alive who would it be?

the writer Andre Norton. > > >21. Favorite alcoholic drink?

Mead. > > >22. What is your zodiac sign?

Virgo (cusp Leo) > > >23. Do you eat the stems of broccoli?

of course – why not? > > >24. If you could have any job you wanted what would it be?

Professional shopper. > > >25. Favorite movies?

"The Color Purple" and more recently "Lord of the Rings" > > >26. Do you type with your fingers on the right keys?

Self taught but mostly touchtyping – and surprisingly fast these days, thanks to internet chatting <g> > > >27. What is under your bed?

Shoes (several dozen pairs) and a hat-box filled with wigs. > > >28. Favorite number?

27 > > >29. Favorite sport to watch?

I don’t watch sport – unless you count men’s gymnastics. > > >30. Say something nice about the person who sent this to you:

Pat is always sharp as a tack > > >31. Who is most likely to respond?

I would have said me. ;-) > > >32. Person you sent this to who is least likely to respond?

I don’t forward emails. > > >34. If you could wish for just one thing?

My tinnitus to go away. — Jette (aka Vinyaduriel) "Work for Peace and remain fiercely loving" – Jim Byrnes je…@blueyonder.co.uk http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/fanfic.html

Response:

Laura Blanchard wrote: > Okay, I’ll do it too.>

Me, three… > >1. With whom do you live?

My sister Toni, and two cats, the geriatric Jezebel and the evil Bookie > >2. What book are you reading?

Um, I hate to admit it, none. Although I did pick up a Sherri S. Tepper novel at the used-book store yesterday, and plan to start it this weekend. > >3. What’s on your mouse pad?

I blush to admit: "Microsoft in Education" (hey, it was a freebie) > >4. Favorite board game?

Scrabble. > >5. Favorite magazine?

Somerset Studio, an ‘art" magazine > >6. Favorite smells?

really good sandalwood – the Japanese kind (Noting in passing, however, that I got a huge kick out of Laura’s "coffee" answers) > >7. Favorite sound?

early morning birdsong, at this time of year. > >8. Worst feeling in the world?

Guilt. So I avoid it. > >9. What is the first thing you think of when you wake up in the morning?

"Goddamned cats …" > >9. Favorite color?

Purple. > >10. How many rings before you answer the phone? > I answer as fast as I can, unless I don’t answer at all.

Ditto. > >11. An annoying habit you have?

Interrupting people in conversation before they’ve finished speaking. But I’m working on it. > >12. Most important things in life?

The people I love. > >13. Favorite food?

Lobster, if we’re talking luxuries. Potatoes in any form, if we’re talking ‘what I could eat day after day without getting bored." > >14. Chocolate or vanilla?

Yes, please. > >15. Do you like to drive fast?

I like to drive, but I use cruise control to keep me legal. > >16. Do you sleep with stuffed animals?

Just the live ones. > >17. Storms–Cool or scary?

Cool, and cooler the wilder they get. > >18. What type was your first car?

A ‘63 Mercury Comet. High school graduation present; I totalled it a month later and didn’t own a car for a decade after that. > >19. Ultimate car?

One that’s paid off. > >20. If you could meet one person dead or alive who would it be?

Oh, my, so many women, so little time. Right now, a couple of net.friends head the list. Not much interest in meeting dead people. > >21. Favorite alcoholic drink?

Single malt whisky, neat or with a splash of cool water. Especially Talisker. > >22. What is your zodiac sign?

Sagittarius, although I usually answer these sorts of questions with something like "Dangerous Curves Ahead" or "Slippery When Wet." > >23. Do you eat the stems of broccoli?

Sure, that’s the best part. > >24. If you could have any job you wanted what would it be?

I love my job (Web design), but if I had another life, I’d like to be one of the people who creates props and scenes for lavish period movies. > >25. Favorite movies?

Hmmm … whatever I saw last and enjoyed (A Beautiful Mind). The only video I own, though, is The Nightmare Before Christmas, and I watch it 2-3 times a year. > >26. Do you type with your fingers on the right keys?

Yes. And really fast, too. > >27. What is under your bed?

Nothing. That’s one of the advantages of sleeping in a waterbed. > >28. Favorite number?

42. (-: > >29. Favorite sport to watch? > Basketball.

Hockey. > >30. Say something nice about the person who sent this to you:

Laura really *does* have a Uniformly Sunny Disposition. > >31. Who is most likely to respond?

Well, it appears that most people have – I’m getting in late on this one. > >32. Person you sent this to who is least likely to respond? > I haven’t sent it to anyone.

Nor have I; I don’t do these e-mail chain letter things. > >34. If you could wish for just one thing?

The eyesight and knees I had when I was in my 20s. –Pat Kight kig…@peak.org

Response:

1. With whom do you live? Its just me and hubby 2. What book are you reading? The Summons by John Grisham, also love Danielle Steel & Robin Cook 3. What’s on your mouse pad? Our mouse pad is an old placemat – ugly 4. Favorite board game? Clue & Monopoly – have not played in years 5. Favorite magazine? Good Housekeeping, Prevention & Int. Figure Skating 6. Favorite smells? Freshly ground coffee 7. Favorite sound? Peace and quite 8. Worst feeling in the world? Being VERY sick and not knowing what is wrong 9. What is the first thing you think of when you wake up in the morning? What time is it, do I really have to get up? 9. Favorite color? red 10. How many rings before you answer the phone? 2 or 3 11. An annoying habit you have? Expecting things to be done right away! 12. Most important things in life? Family and Good Health 13. Favorite food? A lot of things I am allergic to and can not eat: lobster, pizza, shrimp 14. Chocolate or vanilla? both 15. Do you like to drive fast? YES, as long as it is safe!! 16. Do you sleep with stuffed animals? Only hubby!! 17. Storms–Cool or scary? COOL 18. What type was your first car? Brand new 1965 Dodge Dart Convertable – bought right after breaking an engagement. That was definitly the right thing to do. 19. Ultimate car? Very happy with my Grand Prix, as long as it runs well I would not replace it. 20. If you could meet one person dead or alive who would it be? do not know 21. Favorite alcoholic drink? wine – not to dry 22. What is your zodiac sign? sag 23. Do you eat the stems of broccoli? yes 24. If you could have any job you wanted what would it be? Something to help promote research on CFS!! 25. Favorite movies? ????? 26. Do you type with your fingers on the right keys? mostly 27. What is under your bed? carpet and lots of dust 28. Favorite number? ??? 29. Favorite sport to watch? Figure Skating 30. Say something nice about the person who sent this to you: Kitten is a regular contributor to ASM, which is a good thing. 31. Who is most likely to respond? ???? 32. Person you sent this to who is least likely to respond? ????? 34. If you could wish for just one thing? A cure for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and other serious illnesses. If I can have a second wish it would be for peace in the world.

Response:

barbara trumpinski-roberts <kitt…@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> wrote in message

news:Pine.GSO.4.31.0203150827560.27749-100000@staff1.cso.uiuc.edu… > On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Cathy Friedmann wrote: > > 2. What book are you reading? > > a recent Agatha Raisin (who annoys me! <g>) mystery, MC Beaton; would rather > > be reading a new Sneaky Pie Brown > _catch as cat can_ is out in hardback. cheron has it so i haven’t read it > (yet!) > hugs, > kitten

Yeah, it’s not on the libraries’ New Books shelves – I haven’t checked the catalogue to see if it’s just always ‘out’, or if they don’t have it yet – my guess is that it’s on loan. When it comes out in pb I’ll most likely buy it, even if I’ve already found a copy of the HB to read by then. Cathy — "Staccato signals of constant information…" ("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon

Response:

barbara trumpinski-roberts <kitt…@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> quoth: : On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Priscilla Ballou wrote: :> : 3. What’s on your mouse pad? :> :> At home, I have a Digital Queers mousepad :> (http://www.mpmchugh.com/projects/DQ/home.html) : i’m bookmarking this site… I haven’t actually looked around the site much. I just looked it up to include in the post. I got the mousepad at a Gay Pride Day festival some years ago. Priscilla — "We are shaped and fashioned by who and what we choose to love." - Goethe

Response:

Okay, I’ll do it too.> >1. With whom do you live?

My husband; the German Shepherd Formerly Known as Zeke; and the cats Ferko and Quaker City >2. What book are you reading?

Morte d’Arthur; A Sand County Almanac (again); The Hound and The Hawk by John Cummins (review medieval hunting and hawking techniques and literature). >3. What’s on your mouse pad?

Penn Library 250th Anniversary giveaway >4. Favorite board game? Clue. >5. Favorite magazine?

The White Flower Farm catalog >6. Favorite smells? coffee >7. Favorite sound?

coffeepot finishing its cycle >8. Worst feeling in the world? Being out of coffee >9. What is the first thing you think of when you wake up in the morning? Where’s the coffee >9. Favorite color? Don’t have one >10. How many rings before you answer the phone?

I answer as fast as I can, unless I don’t answer at all. >11. An annoying habit you have? None. >12. Most important things in life? Coffee. >13. Favorite food?

Don’t have one. Like most of them >14. Chocolate or vanilla? Both. >15. Do you like to drive fast?

Only on the interstates >16. Do you sleep with stuffed animals? No. >17. Storms–Cool or scary? Very cool. >18. What type was your first car? I forget. >19. Ultimate car?

Yeccch. Who wants one? >20. If you could meet one person dead or alive who would it be? Richard III. >21. Favorite alcoholic drink? Three. >22. What is your zodiac sign?

Leo (who’s surprised?) >23. Do you eat the stems of broccoli?

Depends on how they are. >24. If you could have any job you wanted what would it be?

The one I’ve got — freelance web designer. >25. Favorite movies?

At the moment, the current crop of Jane Austens. Also Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings. >26. Do you type with your fingers on the right keys? Yes. >27. What is under your bed?

Fur stoles and "heritage woolens" sealed and mothballed. >28. Favorite number? Huh? >29. Favorite sport to watch? Basketball. >30. Say something nice about the person who sent this to you:

Kitten has excellent taste in husbands. >31. Who is most likely to respond?

People procrastinating about doing something else. >32. Person you sent this to who is least likely to respond?

I haven’t sent it to anyone. >34. If you could wish for just one thing?

A mind-boggling question — I rarely wish for things. Regards, Laura Blanchard lblanch…@aol.com http://menopause.tripod.com (Land o’Links) http://members.aol.com/lblanch000/

Response:

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Cathy Friedmann wrote: > 2. What book are you reading? > a recent Agatha Raisin (who annoys me! <g>) mystery, MC Beaton; would rather > be reading a new Sneaky Pie Brown

_catch as cat can_ is out in hardback. cheron has it so i haven’t read it (yet!) hugs, kitten — barbara trumpinski-roberts (smotu) ACES Library kitt…@uiuc.edu "The love of a cat is unconditional but always subject to negotiation. You are never in charge." Marge Piercy http://kittencon.gundo.com/

Response:

>1. With whom do you live?

My husband, and "Bob", the gecko >2. What book are you reading?

Hmmm….I have 3 paperbacks in progress and darned if I can remember any of the titles. >3. What’s on your mouse pad?

"DELL" (how unimaginative!) >4. Favorite board game?

Backgammon but it’s been a long time >5. Favorite magazine?

"AOPA Pilot" (my husband gets it) >6. Favorite smells?

A "Tropicana" rose. The air outside the back door of our house this morning (springtime). Coming home to a dinner someone else has fixed. >7. Favorite sound?

A single loon, on a lake at sunset >8. Worst feeling in the world?

That feeling you have right before you throw up. >9. What is the first thing you think of when you wake >up in the morning?

I wonder if John made the coffee yet. >9. Favorite color?

Blue-gray >10. How many rings before you answer the phone?

At work: 1/2 At home: 2 >11. An annoying habit you have?

Procrastination >12. Most important things in life?

Health (my own and my family’s) My husband Having enough money to live comfortably >13. Favorite food?

A nice, thick steak, grilled medium-rare >14. Chocolate or vanilla?

Neither: "Pralines and cream" >15. Do you like to drive fast?

No, and I often wish bad things about people who DO. >16. Do you sleep with stuffed animals?

Not since I got married. (They’re hiding in the cedar chest.) >17. Storms–Cool or scary?

Fantastic, ever since I was little, when my family used to stand in the window and watch lightning strike the tower of the radio station. >18. What type was your first car?

First driven: a Pontiac station wagon (automatic trans) First owned: a 1974 Ford "Mustang II" (manual trans) >19. Ultimate car?

One of those sporty little Mercedes convertibles. No, not really. >20. If you could meet one person dead or alive who >would it be?

I really would like to have met my great-grandfather, who left Switzerland and immigrated to the U.S. all by himself in 1883. (I stole the idea from someone else’s response to #20–thanks!) >21. Favorite alcoholic drink?

A "Kaluha hummer" (Kaluha, rum, and vanilla ice cream blended together like a thick shake) >22. What is your zodiac sign?

Aquarius >23. Do you eat the stems of broccoli?

Only if they’re soft. >24. If you could have any job you wanted what would it >be?

I already have that job–college professor. >25. Favorite movies?

Star Wars (the original) Jurassic Park (the original) Ghost (I still cry every time.) Men in Black >26. Do you type with your fingers on the right keys?

Yes (my mom made me take a typing class 35 years ago), but not on my laptop. >27. What is under your bed?

Just the cord for the electric blanket, an a few of those little fuzz balls. >28. Favorite number?

I guess I don’t have one. One that no one else will pick. >29. Favorite sport to watch?

Spring/summer: baseball (on TV or in person) Fall/winter: college basketball (I hate the NBA) >30. Say something nice about the person who sent this >to you:

Thanks for encouraging us to think about these things, and thanks for making this a friendly NG. [snipped 31-32] >34. If you could wish for just one thing?

Today’s wish: that the world would be purged of people who intentionally crash passenger airplaines into buildings, and people who drown their own children in the bathtub, and people who have dogs that attack and kill their neighbors, and people who run over somebody and then drive home, park the car in the garage, and act like nothing has happened as the person hangs halfway through the windshield, bleeding to death. [Sorry, I know it's not allowed, but I have another one:] That I would wake up one morning and the guy on NPR would NOT be talking about the Israelis and the Palestineans, because they had finally reached an agreement that satisfied everyone and brought a permanent peace to that reagion. That’s clearly more than just one wish, but this has not been a good year for humanity. Cindy Brunner

Response:

"Cathy Friedmann" <c…@adelphia.net> wrote in message

news:a6rli1$g9tu9$1@ID-103542.news.dfncis.de… > Marilee <mae…@polarcomm.com> wrote in message > news:a6rk3m$gmgjd$1@ID-76373.news.dfncis.de… > > 6. Favorite smells? > > Burning leaves > Are you still allowed to burn leaves? That *did* smell nice. It’s been > against ordinances since – well, ages ago, around here.

But I live out in the country. There’s no burning ordinance if you live outside city limits. (They look the other way in town, too, though, when it’s time to rake the leaves in the fall. People still get away with burning them.) > > 18. What type was your first car? > > A Vega Kammback > OMG – you had a Vega!!?? <eg> I couldn’t believe it when my father bought > one; he’s usually a savvy consumer of big-time purchases; my sister > eventually inherited it. And she eventually managed to sell it.

We drove it into the ground, too. It had over 100,000 on the engine, which was a lot for a Vega. I have fond memories of that thing, even though it was an ugly shade of green. (Actually, my dad got my sister and me a little blue Vega to take to and from college. I got married, though, so only had the use of it for a couple of months. I don’t count it as *my* car.) My husband had a 1969 GTX (purple with black interior) that I convinced him to sell (we traded it in on the Vega) about 12 days after we were married. It was a gas hog (7 miles to the gallon) that we couldn’t afford to insure -or- drive, and he wouldn’t let me comb my long brown hair *inside* the car because the hair would cling to the carpet. I hated that car. Marilee – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Cathy > — > "Staccato signals of constant information…" > ("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon

Response:

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Priscilla Ballou wrote: > : 2. What book are you reading? > _The Curse of Chalion_ by Lois McMaster Bujold is sitting on my coffee > table waiting for a nice open stretch when I can finish it. It’s become > too good to be a bus book, and I’m almost through it (sob!).

[ ] i really liked that one. make an appointment to finish it (sometimes you just have to say "i have a two hour meeting" and then sit at your favorite coffeeshop with your book and stay till it’s done.) > : 3. What’s on your mouse pad? > At home, I have a Digital Queers mousepad > (http://www.mpmchugh.com/projects/DQ/home.html)

i’m bookmarking this site… > Priscilla > — > "We are shaped and fashioned by who and what we choose to love." > - Goethe

hugs, kitten — barbara trumpinski-roberts (smotu) ACES Library kitt…@uiuc.edu "The love of a cat is unconditional but always subject to negotiation. You are never in charge." Marge Piercy http://kittencon.gundo.com/

Response:

Marilee <mae…@polarcomm.com> wrote in message

news:a6rm1m$gt9he$1@ID-76373.news.dfncis.de… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Cathy Friedmann" <c…@adelphia.net> wrote in message > news:a6rli1$g9tu9$1@ID-103542.news.dfncis.de… > > Marilee <mae…@polarcomm.com> wrote in message > > news:a6rk3m$gmgjd$1@ID-76373.news.dfncis.de… > > > 6. Favorite smells? > > > Burning leaves > > Are you still allowed to burn leaves? That *did* smell nice. > It’s been > > against ordinances since – well, ages ago, around here. > But I live out in the country. There’s no burning ordinance if you > live outside city limits. (They look the other way in town, too, > though, when it’s time to rake the leaves in the fall. People still > get away with burning them.)

My sister lives out in the country, & she’s allowed to burn only certain things, I think. (I can’t ask her, ’cause she just found out that she’s going on a mini-vacation tomorrow, necessitating a 3:00 a.m. wake-up, so she’s gone to bed already.) We used (when I was in HS) burn leaves in the road, at curbside – in a small village. But since then has been deemed a hazard, both there & here – in a smallish city. I bet it’d get reported, if people tried it here. (Really is too dangerous.) > > > 18. What type was your first car? > > > A Vega Kammback > > OMG – you had a Vega!!?? <eg> I couldn’t believe it when my > father bought > > one; he’s usually a savvy consumer of big-time purchases; my > sister > > eventually inherited it. And she eventually managed to sell it. > We drove it into the ground, too. It had over 100,000 on the > engine, which was a lot for a Vega. I have fond memories of that > thing, even though it was an ugly shade of green. (Actually, my dad > got my sister and me a little blue Vega to take to and from college. > I got married, though, so only had the use of it for a couple of > months. I don’t count it as *my* car.)

I don’t know what the mileage was, by the time my sister sold hers. It was old by then, but she wasn’t ultra-fond of it. More of a what-she-could afford to have at the time deal. > My husband had a 1969 GTX (purple with black interior) that I > convinced him to sell (we traded it in on the Vega) about 12 days > after we were married. It was a gas hog (7 miles to the gallon) > that we couldn’t afford to insure -or- drive, and he wouldn’t let me > comb my long brown hair *inside* the car because the hair would > cling to the carpet. I hated that car. > Marilee

*7* mpg?? That’s *pathetic*! I once went out w/ a guy who had a new Celica; I’d bought a soda, & as we were walking back to the car, he commented, "You are going to finish that before we get into the car, right?" Arghhh. Cathy — "Staccato signals of constant information…" ("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon

Response:

Marilee <mae…@polarcomm.com> wrote in message

news:a6rk3m$gmgjd$1@ID-76373.news.dfncis.de… > 6. Favorite smells? > Burning leaves

Are you still allowed to burn leaves? That *did* smell nice. It’s been against ordinances since – well, ages ago, around here. > 18. What type was your first car? > A Vega Kammback

OMG – you had a Vega!!?? <eg> I couldn’t believe it when my father bought one; he’s usually a savvy consumer of big-time purchases; my sister eventually inherited it. And she eventually managed to sell it. Cathy — "Staccato signals of constant information…" ("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon

Response:

barbara trumpinski-roberts <kitt…@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> wrote: > i normally don’t do this but i got it from my oldest friend. it was > interesting to see her responses…and i thought i would see what you guys > had to say.

I’ll bite. 1. With whom do you live? My cat, Samantha, and innumerous dust bunnies. 2. What book are you reading? LOTR. For the very first time. 3. What’s on your mouse pad? Don’t have one. 4. Favorite board game? Chinese checkers. 5. Favorite magazine? I buy comic books which in Norway are geared towards adults as well as children. I read a lot of stuff from Beetle Bailey to Modesty Blaise. 6. Favorite smells? The smoky smell of frosty nights (fall/spring), the moldy smell of spring, roses, lemons, pine, fresh coffee. 7. Favorite sound? My cat purring. 8. Worst feeling in the world? Feeling like the world hates me and I’m utterly useless. 9. What is the first thing you think of when you wake up in the morning? "Do I have to pee right away or can I just lie here a bit longer?" 9. Favorite color? Lavender blue Two 9’s? 10. How many rings before you answer the phone? Huh. If I’m busy, I don’t answer. 11. An annoying habit you have? Ask someone else. Oh, perpetually late for work. It’s starting to annoy me, too. 12. Most important things in life? Being happy in my own skin. 13. Favorite food? Spaghetti-n-meatballs with lots of parmesan. 14. Chocolate or vanilla? Neither. 15. Do you like to drive fast? If I feel safe, yes. 16. Do you sleep with stuffed animals? Never. 17. Storms–Cool or scary? Way cool! 18. What type was your first car? Owned: A Datsun B210. First to love and drive in: Mercedes Diesel 190. 19. Ultimate car? Runs on water. 20. If you could meet one person dead or alive who would it be? My mother’s father. (He died before Mom was born.) 21. Favorite alcoholic drink? Margharita. 22. What is your zodiac sign? Sagittarius. 23. Do you eat the stems of broccoli? Not the thick ones. Too woody. 24. If you could have any job you wanted what would it be? Jesus. But with a longer life. 25. Favorite movies? 70’s Mel Brooks, like "Young Frankenstein" and "Blazing Saddles" and a South African movie called "The Gods must be crazy". 26. Do you type with your fingers on the right keys? Excellent touch typist here. I freak my boss out. 27. What is under your bed? I plead the 5th! 28. Favorite number? A tad partial to 9’s (and so’s whoever numbered these questions! ) 29. Favorite sport to watch? None, really, though I’ll watch the occassional finals in soccer. 30. Say something nice about the person who sent this to you: "Kitten" has a cool screen name! 31. Who is most likely to respond? Questionaire-addicts. <waves hand> 32. Person you sent this to who is least likely to respond? _ 34. If you could wish for just one thing? That my other wishes would come true. — ***** Keera in Norway ***** * Think big. Shrink to fit. * http://home.online.no/~kafox/

Response:

Might as well>>> 1. With whom do you live? my husband, Chopper and Nubbin (min-pins), and Kelly (lab mix that really belongs to my daughter), with occasional visits from the kids 2. What book are you reading? The latest J.D. Robb mystery (Reunion in Death) and an Iris Johansen (Final Target). 3. What’s on your mouse pad? The word "Curtis" 4. Favorite board game? Cranium and Songburst 5. Favorite magazine? Used to be "Good Housekeeping", but I haven’t read magazines for years 6. Favorite smells? Burning leaves 7. Favorite sound? Music, and the sound of a toddler giggling 8. Worst feeling in the world? Uncertainty 9. What is the first thing you think of when you wake up in the morning? I wonder what will happen today. 9. Favorite color? red, bright yellow 10. How many rings before you answer the phone? 1/2 11. An annoying habit you have? My kids would say it’s looking things up. My husband would say my insistance on accuracy. I think it’s talking to people while they’re having a phone conversation with someone else: I always like to put my 2

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In: 1974 Ford Mustang

Where have all the Plymouths gone???

Question:

Don’t forget the 2005 retro Mustang Roadster and VW Beetle… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Strikes me as strange that Chrysler and General Motors are bringing back old name tags. Chrysler is supposed to be bringing back the Charger name. They’ve already brought back the Magnum. They have had tremendous success with the retro PT Cruiser. GM has brought back the Monte Carlo, the Impala, the Malibu and is making their Chevy trucks reminiscent of the 1960 models. Since they both seem to want to bring back the past, why the hell would they drop the Plymouth and Oldsmobile names????

Response:

Strikes me as strange that Chrysler and General Motors are bringing back old name tags. Chrysler is supposed to be bringing back the Charger name. They’ve already brought back the Magnum. They have had tremendous success with the retro PT Cruiser. GM has brought back the Monte Carlo, the Impala, the Malibu and is making their Chevy trucks reminiscent of the 1960 models. Since they both seem to want to bring back the past, why the hell would they drop the Plymouth and Oldsmobile names????

I think in both cases the parent company mis-managed the name plate for so long that there was no sense continuing to try to keep it alive. Plymouth hadn’t had anything special to sell since God was a boy and GM managed to run off all the Olds buyers with their "new and hip" cars which were neither. It’s easier to bring back an old name for a sales boost to a successful product line than it would be to revive a terminally damaged product line. Just my humble opinion. Your mileage may vary. Steve B.

Response:

Plymouth hadn’t had anything special to sell since God was a boy

And remember – God drove a Fury…

Response:

Plymouth hadn’t had anything special to sell since God was a boy

They were selling the Roadrunner, GTX, Sport Fury, and Duster when I was a boy… and I’m not THAT old! :-p

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So they can bring them back later?

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So they can bring them back later?

Response:

Plymouth hadn’t had anything special to sell since God was a boy

And remember – God drove a Fury…

Response:

Plymouth hadn’t had anything special to sell since God was a boy

They were selling the Roadrunner, GTX, Sport Fury, and Duster when I was a boy… and I’m not THAT old! :-p

Response:

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In: 2005 Mustang

Need 69-70 coupe pics ASAP

Question:

69 351W coupe edelbrock performer I just got a tentative appointment at the best custom rod shop in town to get my girl fixed up to show car quality. I want to add front and or rear spoilers (she lifts up a bit at 100+ mph) and need to decide on a paint scheme, weather to get lemans stripes and weather to paint spoilers to match. also any ideas on how to paint the quarter panel ornaments. so was hoping to get some links to galleries or pics of group member cars to help me decide. specifically of coupes. shes a marina type blue and im keeping that but have always like lemans stripes. i have current pics on www.fargosucks.com thanks,

Response:

I have the ‘69 brochure up at http://www.geocities.com/tetraethyllead/mustang.html Dunno how much help it will be for you.

Response:

I want to add front and or rear spoilers (she lifts up a bit at 100+ mph) and need to decide on a paint scheme, weather to get lemans stripes and weather to paint spoilers to match. also any ideas on how to paint the quarter panel ornaments.

Maybe try the ‘70 Mach one hood treatment, but take it up over the top of the car to the back instead of Le Mans stripes. Either way, IMHO, paint them white. Leave the spoilers black and remove the fake side things from the interior and paint them off the car. Then I guess it would look kinda cool to paint the little fins argent but leave the rest body color (kinda like the shaker hoods having argent colored ribs on top). — Scott W. ‘66 Mustang HCS 289 ‘68 Ranchero 500 302 ‘69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W ‘97 Cougar 30th Anniv SE 4.6L ThunderSnake #57

Response:

FYI: Shaker hood scoop fins are not painted Argent – that is aluminum you see. There is no black paint on the top of the fins. http://www.mustangmonthly.com/howto/75618/index.html Yet another $.02 worth from a proud owner of a 1970 Mach 1 351C featuring a – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe try the ‘70 Mach one hood treatment, but take it up over the top of the car to the back instead of Le Mans stripes. Either way, IMHO, paint them white. Leave the spoilers black and remove the fake side things from the interior and paint them off the car. Then I guess it would look kinda cool to paint the little fins argent but leave the rest body color (kinda like the shaker hoods having argent colored ribs on top).

Response:

FYI: Shaker hood scoop fins are not painted Argent – that is aluminum you see.

I knew this, don’t know why I forgot, other than I was thinking of how he could make the side (dealies) look similar. There is no black paint on the top of the fins.

Obviously, since they’re not black. I never suggested they were. — Scott W. ‘66 Mustang HCS 289 ‘68 Ranchero 500 302 ‘69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W ‘97 Cougar 30th Anniv SE 4.6L ThunderSnake #57

Response:

If your talking about the quarter panel ornaments, i kinda like em. dont know if its just cause im used to them being there or what. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – FYI: Shaker hood scoop fins are not painted Argent – that is aluminum you see. I knew this, don’t know why I forgot, other than I was thinking of how he could make the side (dealies) look similar. There is no black paint on the top of the fins. Obviously, since they’re not black. I never suggested they were.

Response:

You could add ‘69 Shelby converible scoops there too. StuK If your talking about the quarter panel ornaments, i kinda like em. dont know if its just cause im used to them being there or what.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – FYI: Shaker hood scoop fins are not painted Argent – that is aluminum you see. I knew this, don’t know why I forgot, other than I was thinking of how he could make the side (dealies) look similar. There is no black paint on the top of the fins. Obviously, since they’re not black. I never suggested they were.

Response:

i did ask about that, they said 500-600 bucks to install them and make them functional with sealed metal air pathways to the wheel wells. I would not want them unless they functioned. since these body project budgets spiral out of control i decided against it. dont know, could still do it tho. would be super cool. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You could add ‘69 Shelby converible scoops there too. StuK If your talking about the quarter panel ornaments, i kinda like em. dont know if its just cause im used to them being there or what. FYI: Shaker hood scoop fins are not painted Argent – that is aluminum you see. I knew this, don’t know why I forgot, other than I was thinking of how he could make the side (dealies) look similar. There is no black paint on the top of the fins. Obviously, since they’re not black. I never suggested they were.

Response:

I would not want them unless they functioned.

Why? They weren’t functional on the real deal. — Scott W. ‘66 Mustang HCS 289 ‘68 Ranchero 500 302 ‘69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W ‘97 Cougar 30th Anniv SE 4.6L ThunderSnake #57

Response:

Only on the early cars. They weren’t on ’69’s. Strictly just for looks. StuK t – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would not want them unless they functioned. Why? They weren’t functional on the real deal. — Scott W. ‘66 Mustang HCS 289 ‘68 Ranchero 500 302 ‘69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W ‘97 Cougar 30th Anniv SE 4.6L ThunderSnake #57

Response:

Only on the early cars. They weren’t on ’69’s. Strictly just for looks.

StuK Yeah, That’s what I was talking about. 65 was fully functional, ‘66-’68 was partially functional, ‘69-’70 was Riceboy thanks to the beancounters taking the Shelby away from Shelby. — Scott W. ‘66 Mustang HCS 289 ‘68 Ranchero 500 302 ‘69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W ‘97 Cougar 30th Anniv SE 4.6L ThunderSnake #57

Response:

Well bean counters or no, He was busy running a racing team for Ford remember. Shelby’s were always just image cars for Ford really but by ‘69 with Ford having it’s own performance models it didn’t make much sense to keep making them the way they did. ‘65 GT350’s were loud and brash, in ‘67 they were still pretty brash but once A.O. Smith started doing them in ‘68, I doubt Shelby had much to do with much of anything on the cars. By then they were more like a Grand Touring car with a bit of luxo to go with the performance. Beans and rice eh,… those must have been Shelby’s "salad days" <rimshot <groan Personally, I wouldn’t call them "rice" plenty of other cars had tack on "sport" goodies back then. Remember spoilers and scoops were a new thing in racing at the time. Thirty five years later the spoilers on most factory cars now are to hold the centre mounted brake light! I think they were really just to differentiate them from the regular Mustangs enough to give them the cachet you were paying for. Stu StuK – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Only on the early cars. They weren’t on ’69’s. Strictly just for looks. StuK Yeah, That’s what I was talking about. 65 was fully functional, ‘66-’68 was partially functional, ‘69-’70 was Riceboy thanks to the beancounters taking the Shelby away from Shelby. — Scott W. ‘66 Mustang HCS 289 ‘68 Ranchero 500 302 ‘69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W ‘97 Cougar 30th Anniv SE 4.6L ThunderSnake #57

Response:

www.paddockparts.com also has 69 mach 1 hood scoop. has anyone ever added one of these to a stock 69-70 hood? whith the extra clearance of a hole in the hood i could probly finally fit an open aircleaner on there. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Only on the early cars. They weren’t on ’69’s. Strictly just for looks. StuK Yeah, That’s what I was talking about. 65 was fully functional, ‘66-’68 was partially functional, ‘69-’70 was Riceboy thanks to the beancounters taking the Shelby away from Shelby.

Response:

The originals were non functional, they just had two oval holes at the back for the turn signal lights. You can put an open element filter on your car without cutting a hole anyway but if you want some ram air effect it wouldn’t hurt. StuK

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Only on the early cars. They weren’t on ’69’s. Strictly just for looks. StuK Yeah, That’s what I was talking about. 65 was fully functional, ‘66-’68 was partially functional, ‘69-’70 was Riceboy thanks to the beancounters taking the Shelby away from Shelby.

Response:

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In: Ford Mustang Racing

'66 rear suspension

Question:

WOW! What a huge differance. It’s a whole new car now. I knew the ride would be improved, but I had no idea how much! I did so much at once, it’s impossible to tell what each item did specifically. And at this point, I doubt I’m making enough power for the traction bars to really function. But it’s a huge differance.

If you’re driving a stick and you’re getting no wheel hop when you dump the clutch, the traction bars are making a difference. I did my ‘70 Cougar more piecemeal and I found the biggest single difference was the frame connectors, followed by KYB Gas-A-Just shocks and five-leaf springs. If you have not done the Shelby drop, you should. Basically free, if you already own the necessary drill bits. There is no point to doing an M-II conversion other than to run a big block or mod motor. 180 Out TS 28

Response:

The Cobra is off to the paint shop, so it was time to work on the Mustang. A couple of years ago I rebuilt the front end with a Magnum suspension kit from Mustangs Plus. Quality parts, reasonable price. The car had sat for many years, so it really needed it. But I didn’t spend the time to do the rear, even though I had the parts. The springs were original, and the Monroe shocks were not that old. But you could see that it was sagging a little. So a couple of weeks ago I ordered some sub frame connectors and traction bars, and went to work. It took me a few days to get the entire job done: shocks, springs, shackles, connectors, traction bars. The connectors were a bolt in design, but I welded them in anyway. The traction bars are the original Shelby design, with a weld on bracket in the front. I’m not a very good welder; it’s not pretty, but it gets the job done. I finished last night, and went for a short drive. WOW! What a huge differance. It’s a whole new car now. I knew the ride would be improved, but I had no idea how much! I did so much at once, it’s impossible to tell what each item did specifically. And at this point, I doubt I’m making enough power for the traction bars to really function. But it’s a huge differance. I’m going to have to learn to drive this car all over again. It brakes and accelerates in an arrow straight line, absolutly no wander. And taking corners is a whole new experiance. If you havn’t done this yet, you need to get out there and get to work. Now I’m wishing I had done this years ago. Next step, Mustang II front end???? — .boB 1997 HD FXDWG – Turbocharged! 2001 Dodge Dakota QC 5.9/4×4/3.92 1983 GMC Jimmy – Mountain Beater 1966 Mustang Coupe – Daily Driver 1966 FFR Cobra – Ongoing project

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In: 1966 Ford Mustang

All the FAQ, Information, Specs and more about Mustangs

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